Author Topic: TB/STRATA+  (Read 170 times)


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« on: January 23, 2017, 11:13:36 am »
1 = [1-2a] The Great Flood

- Young Earth vs Old Earth. Charles found a webpage that has a lot of arguments for Old Earth and against Young Earth. It's here:
- Of course, those of us who consider only the surface of the Earth to be young, rather than the entire Earth, aren't bothered by some of the evidence. ...
- Flood Deposited Strata. The Noah's Flood paper says the sedimentary rock strata consist of 5 megasequences, where the strata are conforming, meaning they're parallel to each other like pages in a book, and there are 6 unconformities between them, where strata immediately above and below each of them don't conform, apparently because there was time for some erosion to occur or the lower strata shifted or something. The theory is that all of the conforming layers in each megasequence were deposited about the same time by a 2,500 m high series of tsunami waves, which calmed down for a few weeks, then happened again 6 times, about once a month, so each megasequence was followed by a pause, then another tsunami. Berthault's experiments prove this is possible, if not probable. The strata were deposited wet and it took many years to dry out and harden. The tsunamis may have been caused by gravitational attraction to a large body that was circling the Earth about once a month on an elliptical orbit. The best candidates seem to be the Moon, or Mars, or Venus.
- Either the animals immediately after the Flood survived on Noah's ark or a space ship or something, or the Flood failed to cover some of the land. As Mike Fischer says, the strata were deposited during the Flood, but the mountain ranges didn't form till a few centuries later, when the Shock Dynamics impact broke up the supercontinent and caused some flooding too. As Gordon says, the Grand Canyon eroded soon after the main Flood when the two large lakes there, Grand Lake and Hopi Lake, drained through the canyon. When the Shock Dynamics event occurred later, the strata were folded into mountain ranges by compressive heating after they were already somewhat hardened.
- 1. How did sedimentary rock strata form? ... The conventional theory seems to be full of absurdities. The Great Flood theory seems to be most logical to me, combined with the Shock Dynamics theory.
- The conventional theory is that strata and fossils take thousands to millions of years to form. But delicate fossils and large ones could not form in conventional flood or sedimentation events. I don't think it's even proven that conventional sedimentation forms solid strata. There has to be a lot of lime or other cementing agent available to form rock strata. I don't know if rock can form under water until the water is drained away. Most rock strata cover hundreds or thousands of square miles. There would have to be a lot of very huge lakes that filled with sediment. The sediment would have had to move over the entire lake bottom with nearly equal thickness, whereas normally sediment only accumulates near the mouths of rivers or creeks. Erosion would have to bring in just sand with some lime for thousands of years, then bring in just lime for thousands of years, and then just mud for many more thousands of years, because each rock type is usually separate in strata several inches to feet thick. All of the mountains would be eroded down in a few million years, so where would the older strata come from? Would something keep building up mountains to get eroded back down? Is anything besides a Shock Dynamics event capable of building up mountains?
- Creation scientists have shown that a global flood would be capable of cavitating the edges of a supercontinent to form continent-wide strata of sand, lime and mud sediments via tsunamis, caused by a large body temporarily orbiting the Earth on a highly elliptical orbit, which would also fossilize large and delicate organisms quickly.
- [Sedimentary Rock Origin] Great Flood Videos
I was having a question lately about where all the sand, mud and lime would have come from if the sedimentary rock layers on continents were all formed during the Great Flood. After hearing the following video explain it, it seems it should have been obvious: they came largely from the seafloors. I wasn't thinking of the possibility that the oceans could have been stirred up enough to move much of the sediments from the seafloors onto the land.
Here are my Notes on the Flood Video called The Worldwide Flood - Geologic Evidences:
3'37": Evidence: If there was a Great Flood, the ocean waters could have flooded the continents, bringing along sand, mud and ocean creatures.
5'20": Tapeats Sandstone, Redwall Limestone and Coconino Sandstone belong to 5 megasequences of strata that cover much of North America.
5'42": Tapeats covers about 2/3 of U.S. and part of western Canada. It's also found in Israel.
6'24": Redwall having same features and fossils is found in AZ, TN, PA, England, Himalayas near Nepal,
7'00": Cretacious chalk, over 1,000 ft thick in places, is found in Ireland, S. England, Europe, Egypt, Turkey, Western Australia and in the U.S. from NE to TX.
8'40": Coconino, 300 ft thick, has crossbedding diagonal to the horizontal strata formed from underwater sand dune waves with the tops washed off.
10'53": Coconino covers from AZ to KS to TX. The sand waves started at 60 ft high each in water moving 3-5 mph. Coconino was deposited in a few days. The entire Grand Canyon strata were deposited in a few months.
12'54": Ayers Rock in central Australia is sandstone with nearly vertical strata with grains of different sizes, angular and some delicate, meaning they were deposited rapidly (from 60 miles away).
15'57": Ayers sandstone is over 18,000 ft thick. It was deposited within hours by turbidity currents moving up to 70 mph.
20'00": Coconino is over Hermit shale. Shale is hardened mud. Coconino sand came from Canada
22'00": Navajo sandstone in s. Utah lies over Coconino. Navajo sand contains zircons and quartz eroded from mountains of PA and NY.
23'00": Sand waves are direction indicators, indicating that Flood waters flowed during the Paleozoic over the Americas from n.e. to s.w. The same direction of flow occurred on the other continents too.
Gordon & Brigit, The following seems to show that the 12 km deep Kola borehole project found mostly igneous rock nearly all the way down. There are some thin layers of sedimentary rock down to 6 km and a very thin layer at 7 km. There may be some melted metamorphic rock that was formerly sedimentary down to 7 km. Then it's just metamorphic rock that was formerly igneous, i.e. granite below 7 km (or below 4.4 miles). Gordon, do you have comments on this?
Data on the Kola Superdeep Borehole
0-1k) Augite Diabases with Pyroxene & Porphyrites
----- ([Igneous] Diabase = subvolcanic rock equivalent to volcanic basalt or plutonic gabbro)
0>1k, 2>4k) Basic Tuffs & Tuffites
----- ([Igneous] predominantly pyroclasts = volcanic ash)
0>2k) Phyllites, Silkstones with Tuff layers
----- ([Metamorphic/Sedimentary] from shale, silt etc)
0>3k) Gabbro-Diabases
----- ([Igneous] See Diabase above)
0>3k) Laminated Sandstones
----- ([Sedimentary] from sand)
0>3-5k) Achnolitic Diabases
----- ([Igneous] See Diabase above)
0>5+6k) Dolomites, polynistic Sandstones
----- ([Sedimentary] from lime & sand)
4>5k) Sericitic Schists
----- ([Metamorphic] possibly from melted/hardened sand or shale)
3>5-6k) Metadiabases
----- ([Metamorphic] diabase from [Igneous]: see Diabase above)
5>6-7k) Diabase Porphyrites & Schists
----- ([Igneous] See Diabase above; & [Metamorphic] see Schists above)
6>7k) Conglomerates
----- ([Sedimentary] from cemented rounded rocks, larger than sand grains)
6>7-12k) Muscovite-biotite-plagioclase gniesses with high alumina content minerals
-AND Epidote-biotite-plagioclase gniesses with amphibolites, amphibolite schists & ultramafites
----- ([Metamorphic] from Igneous granite or Sedimentary rock)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Postby webolife» Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:51 am
The bore hole sampling confirms my assertion that the strata below Cambrian are primordial, ie. original crust modified when the first continent raised up above the global sea in Day 2, an event which would have been accompanied by erosion and initial depositional sequences, along with igneous upheaval and intrusive/granitic formation, and "country" rock metamorphism due to pressure and heat. Since life first appeared on the surface of this continent, it is expected that there would be limited fossils found in the "surface" layers of the "Pre-Cambrian".
<A>- [I see 4 possibilities for the source of sand and clay sediments. They could have come from:
1. erosion of the granite continental shelf of the supercontinent;
2. erosion of the basalt ocean floor;
3. erosion of subsurface granite or basalt;
4. precipitation of detritus from space.
The first is Baumgardner's theory. The second is other creationists' view. The third is Brown's. The last is Cardona's, with Saturn flares being the specific source. #1 seems the most plausible, since megatsunamis caused by a planetoidal/asteroidal tidal pull would mostly affect the supercontinental shelf, probably in the western Pacific around Asia. Baumgardner explained that high velocity water, as in a megatsunami, causes cavitation, which can rapidly erode solid rock via vacuum pressure. But the shelf may also have contained a lot of sand and clay from normal rain erosion of the supercontinent for thousands or millions of years. That could be moved even more easily by "tidal waves".]
LK: Where are the main gaps in Catastrophism theory?
GW: Gaps in Catastrophic concepts. Our current epoch of relative geologic calm, cyclical seasons and climate were prescribed/predicted at the end of the flood event. Until people begin to recognize that our present case is a result and recovery from the cataclysm of old, the only thing that will convince them is the next global catastrophe. Perhaps even for some this is the lure of Anthropogenic Global Warming and its attendant catastrophes. So the "gap" is the the modern cultural mind. Along with this, the standard model indoctrination of radiometric dating, taught without reference or regard for the assumptions on which it is built, is a roadblock for many. "Hasn't science proven the world is 4.5 billions years old?" it will be commonly quipped.
<A>- Why must it have been a sheet of water? Falling rain would cut only channels. Flowing rivers or streams, even if they meandered for millions of years, would not uniformly sweep 1,000 feet or more of material off almost all of these 10,000 square miles of the fairly flat Kaibab Limestone. Besides, meandering rivers would produce meandering patterns. Therefore, before you can excavate 800 cubic miles of rock below the rim to form the Grand Canyon, something must sweep off almost all the Mesozoic rock above — a much larger excavation project. Surprisingly, the Mesozoic rock has also been swept off the Kaibab Plateau. How could water get so high? Maybe the sweeping process — the Great Denudation — occurred before the Kaibab Plateau rose. [YES! The plateau and all mountain ranges were uplifted after a large asteroid impact split up the supercontinent, apparently a short time after the flood.]
LK: What is the best physical evidence of Catastrophism?
a. Berthault's findings on sedimentation?
b. interbedding of lava and sedimentary rock in Washington etc?
c. Fisher's findings of the large crater on the east side of Africa?
- Can you name other evidence here that you think should be discussed?
GW: Astroblemes associated with every major stratum, the strata themeselves, the absence of record for the 100-millions of years hiatuses
- Earth's atmosphere was likely thicker before the Great Flood cataclysm, so that the stars were not visible. Only the nearby planets and the Sun were visible. Earth had no visible Moon initially.
- Liquefaction During the Flood
- SUMMARY: Liquefaction ... played a major role in rapidly sorting sediments, plants, and animals during the flood. Indeed, the worldwide presence of sorted fossils and sedimentary layers shows that a gigantic global flood occurred. Massive liquefaction also left other diagnostic features such as cross-bedded sandstone, plumes, mounds, and fossilized footprints.
- The Origin of Strata and Layered Fossils
What would happen to buried animals and plants in temporarily liquefied sediments?
- As we will see, fluid-like sediments produced a buoyancy that largely explains why fossils show a degree of vertical sorting and why sedimentary rocks all over the world are typically so sharply layered. During liquefaction [common with water saturated soil during earthquakes], denser particles sink and lighter particles (and dead organisms, soon to become fossils) float up — until a liquefaction lens is encountered. Lenses of water form along nearly horizontal paths if the sediments below those horizontal paths are more permeable than those above, so more water flows up into each lens than out through its roof. Sedimentary particles and dead organisms buried in the sediments were sorted and resorted into vast, thin layers.
- A sedimentary layer often spans hundreds of thousands of square miles. (River deltas, where sediment thicknesses grow most rapidly [in modern times], are a tiny fraction of that area.) Liquefaction during a global flood would account for the vast expanse of these thick layers. Current processes and eons of time do not.
- One thick, extensive sedimentary layer has remarkable purity. The St. Peter sandstone, spanning about 500,000 square miles in the central United States, is composed of almost pure quartz, similar to sand on a white beach. It is hard to imagine how any geologic process, other than global liquefaction, could achieve this degree of purity over such a wide area.21 Almost all other processes involve mixing, which destroys purity.
- Today, sediments are usually deposited in and by rivers — along a narrow line. However, individual sedimentary rock layers are spread over large geographical areas, not on long narrow, streamlike paths. Liquefaction during the flood acted on all sediments and sorted them over wide areas in weeks or months.
- Liquefaction Plumes and Mounds. The large water content of liquefied sand layers (40%) would have made them quite buoyant. Whenever a low-density, fluid layer (such as a water-sand mixture) underlies a denser, liquefied layer, the lighter fluid, if shaken, will float up in plumes through the denser fluid. Sand plumes that penetrated overlying layers are seen in many places on earth.
- During the [flood], liquefied water-sand mixtures in many places erupted like small volcanoes. Being surrounded and permeated by water, they would have quickly slumped into the shape of an upside-down bowl — a liquefaction mound. As the flood waters drained at the end of the flood, most liquefaction mounds were swept away, because they did not have time to be cemented. However, mounds inside postflood lakes (basins) were cemented as each lake cooled and its dissolved silica and calcium carbonate were forced out of solution. If a lake later breached and dumped its water, the larger cemented mounds could resist the torrent of rushing water and retain their shapes. The basins that held Grand and Hopi Lakes contain hundreds of such mounds. The sudden breaching of those lakes several centuries after the flood carved the Grand Canyon.
<B>- Ayers Rock ... in central Australia ... has characteristics of both a broad liquefaction plume and a liquefaction mound.
<B>- Missing Mesozoic STRATUM
- Actually, cutting through the Kaibab Plateau is a relatively minor problem, and carving the entire Grand Canyon is not even half the problem. The Grand Canyon’s rim consists of hard Kaibab Limestone, typically 350 feet thick. When you walk to the canyon’s edge to look down, you are standing on Kaibab Limestone. It extends away from the canyon in all directions, covering about 10,000 square miles. However, rising 1,000 feet above this Kaibab Limestone at a few dozen isolated spots are softer (crumbly or weakly cemented) Mesozoic rocks; they are always capped on top by a very hard rock, such as lava. Obviously, lava did not flow up to the top; lava, which flows downhill, collected in a depression and hardened. Later, a fast-moving sheet of water flowed over northern Arizona and swept all the soft Mesozoic rock off the hard Kaibab Limestone — except for the few dozen spots capped and protected by hard rock.
<- World Lines Map >
I don't find Brown's Hydroplate theory to be plausible, but his online book has a lot of good flood info
- Water hammers occur, often with a loud bang, when a fluid flowing in a pipe is suddenly stopped (or slowed) by closing (or narrowing) a valve, such as a faucet. A water hammer is similar to the collision of a long train. The faster and more massive the flowing volume of water, the greater the sudden compression (or pressure pulse) throughout the pipe as the water is slowed or stopped. A water hammer concentrates energy, just as a hammer striking a nail concentrates energy and produces forces many times greater than a resting hammer.
- Vibrations often begin when a fluid (a liquid or gas) flows along a relatively thin, flexible surface, such as the wing of an airplane or a flat plate. If (a) the flowing fluid continually “thumps” or pushes the flexible surface back toward its neutral position, and (b) the “thumping” frequency approaches any natural frequency of the wing or plate, large, potentially damaging oscillations (or resonances), called flutter, can occur.
- Water [moving] beneath earth’s crust [in large caves and aquifers along with tidal waves over the crust] during the flood caused the crust to flutter, and its large area gave it great flexibility. Each narrowing of the subsurface flow channel by the vibrating crust slowed [vast amounts] of water and produced water hammers that “thumped” the crust at each of its natural frequencies. Undulations rippled throughout the crust, producing other water hammers, more undulations, pulsations ..., and huge flutter amplitudes. Most people have heard water pipes banging or have seen pipes burst when only a few cubic feet of water were slowed. Imagine the excruciating pressures from rapidly slowing a “moving underground ocean.”12
- Sediments, such as sand and clay, are produced by eroding crystalline rock, such as granite or basalt. Sedimentary rocks are cemented sediments. On the continents, they average more than a mile in thickness. Today, two-thirds of continental surface rocks are sedimentary; one-third is crystalline. Was crystalline rock, eroded at earth’s surface, the source of the original sediments? If it was, the first blanket of eroded sediments would prevent that rock from producing additional sediments. The more sediments produced, the fewer the sediments that could be produced. Exposed crystalline rock would disappear long before all today’s sediments and sedimentary rocks could form. Transporting those new sediments, often great distances, is another difficulty. Clearly, most sediments did not come from the earth’s surface. ...
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 08:20:53 am by Admin »

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