Author Topic: 1 = [1-2a] The Great Flood  (Read 3 times)


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1 = [1-2a] The Great Flood
« on: January 07, 2017, 07:15:51 pm »
[1-2a] The Great Flood

001. Deserts from nuclear war?
002. Former civilizations in Antarctica, Greenland
003. Ancient underground tunnels useful today?
004. Ancient micro technology
005. World maps before "discoverers" came
006. Changes in maps
007. Pre-Aboriginal paintings in Australia
008. Tut's gold from Australia?
009. Micro technology
010. The Black Knight
011. Ancient Chinese were that "mysterious" race?
012. Ancient voyage India to Rome?
013. Tunnels explored to the end?
015. The catacombs of Rome
016. Help! No ancient tunnel pictures!
017. Ancient civilizations and God
018. Religious beliefs of ancient races
019. Ancient giants - mere fantasy?
301. Earth's last flip-over
302. Sun and earth
303. The continents divided
304. Fitting of the continents
305. How Antarctica became frozen

=========================Postby Lloyd » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:55 am
- Flood Deposited Strata. The Noah's Flood paper says the sedimentary rock strata consist of 5 megasequences, where the strata are conforming, meaning they're parallel to each other like pages in a book, and there are 6 unconformities between them, where strata immediately above and below each of them don't conform, apparently because there was time for some erosion to occur or the lower strata shifted or something. The theory is that all of the conforming layers in each megasequence were deposited about the same time by a 2,500 m high series of tsunami waves, which calmed down for a few weeks, then happened again 6 times, about once a month, so each megasequence was followed by a pause, then another tsunami. Berthault's experiments prove this is possible, if not probable. The strata were deposited wet and it took many years to dry out and harden. The tsunamis may have been caused by gravitational attraction to a large body that was circling the Earth about once a month on an elliptical orbit. The best candidates seem to be the Moon, or Mars, or Venus.
- Either the animals immediately after the Flood survived on Noah's ark or a space ship or something, or the Flood failed to cover some of the land. As Mike Fischer says, the strata were deposited during the Flood, but the mountain ranges didn't form till a few centuries later, when the Shock Dynamics impact broke up the supercontinent and caused some flooding too. As Gordon says, the Grand Canyon eroded soon after the main Flood when the two large lakes there, Grand Lake and Hopi Lake, drained through the canyon. When the Shock Dynamics event occurred later, the strata were folded into mountain ranges by compressive heating after they were already somewhat hardened.

=========================Postby Lloyd » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:57 pm
Flood Legends From Around the World
I rearranged them to show them from East to West and North to South, pretty much.
D = Destruction by Water
. --- G = (God) Divine Cause
. --- ----- W = Warning Given
. --- --- --- --- H = Humans Spared
. --- --- --- --- ----- A = Animals Spared
. --- --- --- --- --- --- --- V = Saved in a Vessel
D --- G --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 32 U.S.A.- Hawaiians
D --- . --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 33 Vanualu- Melanesians
D --- G --- W --- H --- A --- . --- 14 French Polynesia- Raiatea
D --- G --- . --- H --- . --- V --- 13 Fiji- Walavu-levu tradition
D --- G --- . --- H --- . --- V --- 26 New Zealand- Maori
D --- . --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 01 Australia- Kurnai
D --- . --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 05 Borneo- Sea Dayak
D --- G --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 09 China- Lolo
D --- G --- . --- H --- . --- V --- 23 Malay Peninsula- Jekun
D --- . --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 34 Vietnam- Bahnar
D --- . --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 06 Burma- Singpho
D --- G --- . --- H --- . --- V --- 18 India- Andaman Islands
D --- . --- W --- H --- A --- V --- 19 India- Bhil
D --- G --- W --- H --- . --- V --- 20 India- Kamar
D --- . --- W --- H --- . --- V --- 28 Russia- Vogul
D --- . --- W --- H --- A --- . --- 21 Iran- Zend-Avesta
D --- . --- W --- H --- A --- V --- 02 Babylon- Berossus' account
D --- G --- W --- H --- A --- V --- 03 Babylon- Gilgamesh epic
D --- G --- W --- H --- A --- V --- 11 East Africa- Masai
D --- G --- W --- H --- . --- V --- 12 Egypt- Book of the Dead
D --- . --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 15 Greece- Lucian's account
D --- G --- . --- H --- . --- V --- 22 Italy- Ovid's poetry
D --- . --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 35 Wales- Dwyfan/Dwyfan legend
D --- G --- . --- H --- . --- V --- 17 Iceland- Eddas
D --- G --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 07 Canada- Cree
D --- G --- W --- H --- A --- V --- 08 Canada- Montagnais
D --- . --- W --- H --- A --- V --- 29 U.S.A. (Alaska)- Kolusches
D --- G --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 30 U.S.A. (Alaska)- Tlingit
D --- . --- W --- H --- A --- V --- 31 U.S.A. (Arizona)- Papago
D --- . --- W --- H --- . --- V --- 24 Mexico- Codex Chimalpopoca
D --- . --- W --- H --- A --- V --- 25 Mexico- Huichol
D --- . --- W --- H --- A --- V --- 10 Cuba- original natives
D --- G --- . --- H --- A --- V --- 16 Guyana- Macushi
D --- G --- W --- H --- . --- V --- 04 Bolivia- Chiriguano
D --- . --- W --- H --- A --- . --- 27 Peru- Indians of Huarochiri
35 -- 18 -- 17 -- 35 -- 24 -- 32 -- Total Occurrences out of 35
The G's and W's are irrelevant to me, but I didn't feel like making the effort to remove them.
--------------------Postby Grey Cloud » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:03 pm
Deucalion's flood was caused by a lake escaping from its location due to earthquake. I also mentioned the Welsh 'flood' which was actually about a town sinking. There is a similar French tale about Lys(?).
many ancient peoples speak of alternating catastrophes of flood and fire. That which causes flood comes from the direction of one constellation and that which causes fire comes from the direction of a different constellation. Of the top of my head I think fire is Cancer.
As I've mentioned, my current focus is on the LBA collapse. I do not see any flood there - electrics and lots of fire, yes.
--------------------Postby Roshi » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:55 pm
Flood stories from around the world:
Wintu (north central California); Papago (Arizona).

Then - between 15000 and 12000 years ago, there was this giant flood. Caused by a shift in Earth's orbit, or as you say - a giant body passing by, or who knows what else. I agree with the electric discharge that shaped the features of Mars, maybe that's when a planet (Phaeton?) passed near Mars and was destroyed, and caused chaos on Earth. This is my version of history.

I don't find Brown's Hydroplate theory to be plausible, but his online book has a lot of good flood info
- Liquefaction During the Flood
- SUMMARY: Liquefaction ... played a major role in rapidly sorting sediments, plants, and animals during the flood. Indeed, the worldwide presence of sorted fossils and sedimentary layers shows that a gigantic global flood occurred. Massive liquefaction also left other diagnostic features such as cross-bedded sandstone, plumes, mounds, and fossilized footprints.
- The Origin of Strata and Layered Fossils
What would happen to buried animals and plants in temporarily liquefied sediments?
- As we will see, fluid-like sediments produced a buoyancy that largely explains why fossils show a degree of vertical sorting and why sedimentary rocks all over the world are typically so sharply layered. During liquefaction [common with water saturated soil during earthquakes], denser particles sink and lighter particles (and dead organisms, soon to become fossils) float up — until a liquefaction lens is encountered. Lenses of water form along nearly horizontal paths if the sediments below those horizontal paths are more permeable than those above, so more water flows up into each lens than out through its roof. Sedimentary particles and dead organisms buried in the sediments were sorted and resorted into vast, thin layers.
- A sedimentary layer often spans hundreds of thousands of square miles. (River deltas, where sediment thicknesses grow most rapidly [in modern times], are a tiny fraction of that area.) Liquefaction during a global flood would account for the vast expanse of these thick layers. Current processes and eons of time do not.
- One thick, extensive sedimentary layer has remarkable purity. The St. Peter sandstone, spanning about 500,000 square miles in the central United States, is composed of almost pure quartz, similar to sand on a white beach. It is hard to imagine how any geologic process, other than global liquefaction, could achieve this degree of purity over such a wide area.21 Almost all other processes involve mixing, which destroys purity.
- Today, sediments are usually deposited in and by rivers — along a narrow line. However, individual sedimentary rock layers are spread over large geographical areas, not on long narrow, streamlike paths. Liquefaction during the flood acted on all sediments and sorted them over wide areas in weeks or months.
- [An] experiment showed that the natural order of settling following death was, from the bottom up: amphibian, reptile, mammal, and finally bird.18 This order of relative buoyancy correlates closely with “the evolutionary order,” but, of course, evolution was not the cause. Other factors, also influencing burial order at each geographical location, were: liquefaction lenses; which animals were living in the same region; and each animal’s mobility before the flood overtook it.
- Many fossilized fish are flattened between extremely thin sedimentary layers. This requires squeezing the fish to the thinness of a sheet of paper without damaging the thin sedimentary layers directly above and below. How could this happen? Because dead fish usually float, something must have pressed the fish onto the seafloor. Even if tons of sediments were dumped through the water and on top of the fish, thin [flat] layers would not lie above and below the fish. Besides, it would take many thin layers, not one, to complete the burial. We do not see this happening today. However, liquefaction would sort sediments into thousands of thin layers. During each wave cycle, liquefaction lenses would simultaneously form at various depths in the sedimentary column. Fish that floated up into a water lens would soon be flattened when the lens finally drained. [Water hammers and flutter vibrated the sediments as explained below.]
- Water hammers occur, often with a loud bang, when a fluid flowing in a pipe is suddenly stopped (or slowed) by closing (or narrowing) a valve, such as a faucet. A water hammer is similar to the collision of a long train. The faster and more massive the flowing volume of water, the greater the sudden compression (or pressure pulse) throughout the pipe as the water is slowed or stopped. A water hammer concentrates energy, just as a hammer striking a nail concentrates energy and produces forces many times greater than a resting hammer.
- Vibrations often begin when a fluid (a liquid or gas) flows along a relatively thin, flexible surface, such as the wing of an airplane or a flat plate. If (a) the flowing fluid continually “thumps” or pushes the flexible surface back toward its neutral position, and (b) the “thumping” frequency approaches any natural frequency of the wing or plate, large, potentially damaging oscillations (or resonances), called flutter, can occur.
- Water [moving] beneath earth’s crust [in large caves and aquifers along with tidal waves over the crust] during the flood caused the crust to flutter, and its large area gave it great flexibility. Each narrowing of the subsurface flow channel by the vibrating crust slowed [vast amounts] of water and produced water hammers that “thumped” the crust at each of its natural frequencies. Undulations rippled throughout the crust, producing other water hammers, more undulations, pulsations ..., and huge flutter amplitudes. Most people have heard water pipes banging or have seen pipes burst when only a few cubic feet of water were slowed. Imagine the excruciating pressures from rapidly slowing a “moving underground ocean.”12
- Sediments, such as sand and clay, are produced by eroding crystalline rock, such as granite or basalt. Sedimentary rocks are cemented sediments. On the continents, they average more than a mile in thickness. Today, two-thirds of continental surface rocks are sedimentary; one-third is crystalline. Was crystalline rock, eroded at earth’s surface, the source of the original sediments? If it was, the first blanket of eroded sediments would prevent that rock from producing additional sediments. The more sediments produced, the fewer the sediments that could be produced. Exposed crystalline rock would disappear long before all today’s sediments and sedimentary rocks could form. Transporting those new sediments, often great distances, is another difficulty. Clearly, most sediments did not come from the earth’s surface. ...
- [I see 4 possibilities for the source of sand and clay sediments. They could have come from:
1. erosion of the granite continental shelf of the supercontinent;
2. erosion of the basalt ocean floor;
3. erosion of subsurface granite or basalt;
4. precipitation of detritus from space.
The first is Baumgardner's theory. The second is other creationists' view. The third is Brown's. The last is Cardona's, with Saturn flares being the specific source. #1 seems the most plausible, since megatsunamis caused by a planetoidal/asteroidal tidal pull would mostly affect the supercontinental shelf, probably in the western Pacific around Asia. Baumgardner explained that high velocity water, as in a megatsunami, causes cavitation, which can rapidly erode solid rock via vacuum pressure. But the shelf may also have contained a lot of sand and clay from normal rain erosion of the supercontinent for thousands or millions of years. That could be moved even more easily by "tidal waves".]
- Liquefaction Plumes and Mounds. The large water content of liquefied sand layers (40%) would have made them quite buoyant. Whenever a low-density, fluid layer (such as a water-sand mixture) underlies a denser, liquefied layer, the lighter fluid, if shaken, will float up in plumes through the denser fluid. Sand plumes that penetrated overlying layers are seen in many places on earth.
- During the [flood], liquefied water-sand mixtures in many places erupted like small volcanoes. Being surrounded and permeated by water, they would have quickly slumped into the shape of an upside-down bowl — a liquefaction mound. As the flood waters drained at the end of the flood, most liquefaction mounds were swept away, because they did not have time to be cemented. However, mounds inside postflood lakes (basins) were cemented as each lake cooled and its dissolved silica and calcium carbonate were forced out of solution. If a lake later breached and dumped its water, the larger cemented mounds could resist the torrent of rushing water and retain their shapes. The basins that held Grand and Hopi Lakes contain hundreds of such mounds. The sudden breaching of those lakes several centuries after the flood carved the Grand Canyon.
- Ayers Rock ... in central Australia ... has characteristics of both a broad liquefaction plume and a liquefaction mound.
- Missing Mesozoic STRATUM
- Actually, cutting through the Kaibab Plateau is a relatively minor problem, and carving the entire Grand Canyon is not even half the problem. The Grand Canyon’s rim consists of hard Kaibab Limestone, typically 350 feet thick. When you walk to the canyon’s edge to look down, you are standing on Kaibab Limestone. It extends away from the canyon in all directions, covering about 10,000 square miles. However, rising 1,000 feet above this Kaibab Limestone at a few dozen isolated spots are softer (crumbly or weakly cemented) Mesozoic rocks; they are always capped on top by a very hard rock, such as lava. Obviously, lava did not flow up to the top; lava, which flows downhill, collected in a depression and hardened. Later, a fast-moving sheet of water flowed over northern Arizona and swept all the soft Mesozoic rock off the hard Kaibab Limestone — except for the few dozen spots capped and protected by hard rock.
- Why must it have been a sheet of water? Falling rain would cut only channels. Flowing rivers or streams, even if they meandered for millions of years, would not uniformly sweep 1,000 feet or more of material off almost all of these 10,000 square miles of the fairly flat Kaibab Limestone. Besides, meandering rivers would produce meandering patterns. Therefore, before you can excavate 800 cubic miles of rock below the rim to form the Grand Canyon, something must sweep off almost all the Mesozoic rock above — a much larger excavation project. Surprisingly, the Mesozoic rock has also been swept off the Kaibab Plateau. How could water get so high? Maybe the sweeping process — the Great Denudation — occurred before the Kaibab Plateau rose. [YES! The plateau and all mountain ranges were uplifted after a large asteroid impact split up the supercontinent, apparently a short time after the flood.]
- Petrified Forest.
- Probably the world’s largest concentration of petrified wood is in the Petrified Forest National Park in Arizona. (Trainloads of petrified wood were removed before the region became a protected park in 1906.) Few people realize that this park lies inside the former Hopi Lake. Why does wood petrify, and how were these unusual conditions met in Hopi Lake?
- Researchers using silica-rich solutions have duplicated petrification in laboratories. [In the flood] (1) ... silica ... was dissolved in the hot subterranean water and (2) ... large preflood trees58 [were] floating in warm postflood lakes....
“... silica nucleation and deposition can occur directly and rapidly on exposed cellulose surfaces.” Sigleo, p. 1404.
- “The majority of these trees [in Petrified Forest National Park] were very tall. On the average the logs are about 80 to 100 feet long and three to four feet in diameter, but some range up to 200 feet in length and ten feet in diameter at the base.” Sidney Ash, Petrified Forest: The Story Behind the Scenery (Holbrook, Arizona: Petrified Forest Museum Association, 1985), p. 20.

====================postby Lloyd » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:29 pm
Problems in the Glacial Theory
Creation Research Society Quarterly, 13(1):25-34, June 1976
[Note: I'm not a creationist, but they published a lot of good science. I suspect that the great majority of glacial evidence is actually great flood evidence as this article explains.]
... A layer of unconsolidated material [called drift] ... covers the solid sedimentary and igneous rocks in the temperate zones of Europe and North America. ... A ... similar [layer] occurs in parts of India, in South Africa, the tropical zones of South America, and in many mountainous areas of the world.
<<__Question 1 for Gordon: Do you agree that the drift in India, S Africa & S America suggests that the drift layer was deposited before the supercontinent split, because those 3 areas were adjacent on the supercontinent? Europe & N America were also adjacent. I wonder if the other mountainous areas containing drift are adjacent to both of those two north & south locations.>>
<<__Question 2 for Gordon: Why did the drift not lithify during the flood? Is there any other significant amount of drift that wasn't deposited by the Great Flood? And why are there locations with no drift?>
- The material consists of gravel, sand and clay, with many large boulders of variable composition, and innumerable rounded stones and pebbles of all sizes. Often it is hundreds of feet thick. Frequently stratification exists, and it is usually present in the sand in the pattern of cross stratification.
- Cross stratification:
- Usually referred to as "drift", the material is also known as boulder-clay, diluvium, outwash deposits, glacial moraine, and till. ... In general, the landforms composed of drift have a remarkably fresh appearance. Although they contain loose material, the effects of erosion have been minimal, showing they could not be of great age but must have been formed recently.
<Glacial Theory> Geologists believe that the last of the ice disappeared only a few thousand years ago.
- The [layer] of drift is shaped into a wide variety of structures, [kames, eskers, rimmed plateaus, drumlins, flutings, striations, potholes & erratics, as follows below]....
<<__Question 3 for Gordon: Can you explain how a megatsunami could produce each of the drift types discussed below, i.e. kames, eskers, rimmed plateaus, drumlins, flutings, striations, potholes & erratics? Or can you give a source that explains them all?>
- Images of kames, eskers, rimmed plateaus, drumlins, flutings, striations, potholes & erratics:
- Kame:
- Esker:
- Drumlin:,
- Fluting:
- Striations:
- Potholes:
- Erratics:
- Kames are conical mounds usually composed of sandy material.
<Glacial Theory> [Kames] are thought to have been caused by the dumping of glacial debris when the great ice sheets of the glacial age melted.
- Eskers are long, winding ridges of gravel and sand.... Sometimes branching eskers occur. The eskers are known to stretch for great distances, go up and down hills, and disappear and occur again further on.
<Glacial Theory> [Eskers] are explained in the glacial theory as the debris of rivers formed in or on the glaciers, that was let down when the ice melted.
In the prairie regions of Canada and in the northern states of the United States there are various kinds of rimmed plateau, composed of drift. Often these have central depressions containing clay sediments. The rims are often composed of stony material and contorted drift layers. Some of the rimmed plateau or prairie mounds are of large size, with areas of several square miles, and may reach as much as 150 feet above the surrounding hummocky and pitted regions.
<Glacial Theory> The rimmed plateau and prairie mounds are explained in the glacial theory as landforms created during the melting of the great ice-sheets. The glaciers, it is believed, sometimes melted in such a way that isolated blocks of ice were formed, that wasted away and deposited their debris in various kinds of rimmed structures and plateau.
- Drumlins are hills shaped like the inverted bowl of a spoon.... Glacial flutings are similar, elongated parallel ridges and troughs. Individual flutings may stretch for several miles in the prairies of Canada and parts of North Dakota and Montana.
Drumlins and flutings are ... streamlined landforms ... often composed of drift, but many are bedrock or partly bedrock. Some have a mass of bedrock at their upstream ends. ... In drumlin swarms the drumlins all have locally parallel orientation ... sometimes covering thousands of square miles.
<Glacial Theory> Drumlins and flutings are explained as the effects of the movement of the ice in the glacial theory. The ice-sheet flowing across the countryside shaped and moulded the rocks and previously deposited layers of glacial debris into these remarkable ... landforms....
<<__Question 4 for Gordon: Could the parallel Nebraska dunes be drumlins or flutings? Is there any way an ice sheet could move significantly and streamline any of these drift types?>
- Striations are frequently present on the surface of the bedrock underlying the layer of drift. In some areas the bare rocks uncovered by drift are also scratched and grooved, as if by movement of stones across them.... Within the layers of gravel in the drift there are many rocks and boulders that are striated.
<Glacial Theory> These are thought to have been transported by ice and abraded in the process. ... [Bedrock surface striations are] attributed to the ice-sheets in the glacial theory [with] large numbers of stones being carried along in its base, that gouged the bedrock as the ice-sheet went along.
<<__Question 5 for Gordon: How could megatsunamis make striations on bedrock and on the rocks that they push around?>
- In the bedrock underneath the drift, and at many places where the bedrock is exposed, there are deep vertical potholes, ... usually filled up with the drift material, sand and gravel and large boulders.
<Glacial Theory> [Potholes] are often explained by reference to the glacial theory. These are attributed to glacial "moulins" or waterfalls tumbling down crevasses in the ice, that eroded the bedrock and caused these deep holes.
<<__Question 6 for Gordon: The Washington scablands that formed from the Missoula flood have potholes that formed by vortex cavitation during the flood, apparently, so were potholes in bedrock under the drift more likely form from flood than from glaciation? Are the scabland potholes ever filled with drift? Maybe this image answers the question: >
- Large boulders, ... known as "erratics" ..., are found in some regions with a composition quite different from that of the bedrock [and other drift] in the vicinity. These may sometimes be as large as houses, and are usually rounded, though some are of irregular shape. In the drift there are stones and pebbles of varying composition and appearance, but most of the rocks reflect the composition of the bedrock underneath.
<Glacial Theory> The large boulders ... are considered to have been transported from regions afar by the moving ice-sheets. ...
<<__Question 7 for Gordon: Why is most drift of the same rock type as the bedrock under it? If the flood transported large erratic boulders, shouldn't smaller kinds of drift material also be erratic?>
... ... Flint provides a table of some examples of ... erratics ... [here modified & supplemented]:
- Erratics
 Moved .. Uplifted
distance: height: .. From:
> 18 km; 1000 m; Mount Katahdin, Maine
> 100 km; 900 m; Adirondack Mountains, New York
160 km; 500 m; Allegheny Plateau, central New York
80 km; .. 900 m; Killington Peak, Green Mountains, Vermont
1,300 km; 1,300 m; Rocky Mountains of Alberta
Moved dist: .. To: .... From:
100-1250 km; UK-Russia; Scandinavia & Finland
1000 km; .... Missouri; Ontario
... km; ..............; Alberta
... km; ..............; Manitoba
... km; ..............; Northwest Territories
... km; ..............; [Ireland &] Wales
... km; ..............; Northern Germany
- These erratics, [many] perched higher than their sources, if they are to be attributed to ice, would require that the direction of the flow of the ice was opposite to the slope of the land. Flint suggested that the stones were carried in the base of the ice, which flowed uphill, rather than that they somehow migrated upwards through the ice. ... How Could the Ice Move Uphill?... Howorth accused the glacialists of departing from the principles of physics and appealing to "transcendental causes". ... Howorth believed that the motivation of geologists who favored the glacial theory was their reluctance to accept a catastrophic alternative. ... In his book Ice or Water he [said:] ... Their real inspiration has been the fervent hope embodied in the words with which Sir R. Ball concludes his ill-fated book on the Glacial Age. "The appeal to ice removed the glacial period from the position of a 'catastrophic' phenomenon. It placed the ice-sheet as an implement at the disposal of the geological uniformitarian."
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 06:30:29 pm by Admin »

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