Author Topic: X = [1-4] The Ice Age  (Read 3 times)

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X = [1-4] The Ice Age
« on: January 07, 2017, 07:41:47 pm »
[1-4] The Ice Age
=========================Postby Lloyd » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:58 am
... Ice Age. I'm trying to get more discussion on this topic, so I brought it up on another forum too at http://www.christianforums.com/threads/great-flood-evidence.7921217/. One of the members there provided a link to a good article on the Arctic animals. It's The extinction of the woolly mammoth: was it a quick freeze? http://creation.com/the-extinction-of-the-woolly-mammoth-was-it-a-quick-freeze. I also emailed NewGeology.us ...
- That article answers almost all of my questions, except for the problem of why the frozen animals' cells didn't burst. I don't know how certain it is that their cells didn't burst, but supposedly when animals' bodies freeze normally, their cells do burst. And it's only by flash freezing them to extremely cold temperatures that can prevent the cells from bursting. And besides unburst cells, there's said to be other evidence of flash freezing, namely the claims that streams were found in Siberia I think with fish frozen in them in medium level depths and, more importantly, one stream with cattle swimming in it with their heads above the ice and their bodies in swimming position.
- Oard's Solution. The article has a novel but very plausible solution. It agrees that the Arctic animals migrated to the Arctic after the Great Flood. The Arctic Ocean remained warm for a few centuries and the land area around it was also warm in winter and summer, I guess kind of like around the Mediterranean Sea. Glaciation started in eastern Canada and Greenland and gradually spread to central Canada and the Arctic. Many of the animals got trapped there around the Arctic Ocean. Wind-blown loess and ice killed them and buried them, some while still standing or kneeling. Dust storms apparently can bury large objects sometimes. I just found an update of Oard's paper here: https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j17_2/j17_2_74-79.pdf.
- Remaining Doubts. I'm still not completely satisfied, as there still seems to be a strong possibility that the freezing was extremely sudden and bitter, below -150 F, and it seems questionable that the Arctic could provide enough vegetation in the winters for so many animals, and at least some of the animals in eastern Siberia were hit by shrapnel from meteor air bursts. A bison that was hit by micrometeorites appeared to continue living after being hit, since the bone [or horn?] started to grow back over the punctures.

--------------------Postby johnm33 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:19 am
__REFERENCE
This is a piece by Ginenthal which is full of references http://saturniancosmology.org/files/holden/velikovskianiv-no.4.txt

__- 8. GRAND CANYON
LK: Is it obvious that the Grand Canyon formed from dam breaks of the ancient lakes that previously existed north and east of the canyon?
- Do you know how to calculate how soft the ground had to be in order for the canyon to erode so quickly and deeply?
- And do you know how to calculate how young the sediments had to be in order to be that soft?
GW: The Grand Canyon is the popular go to for both catastrophists and uniformitarians, so is a good place to discuss the mechanisms of sedimentation. I refer folks to Guy Berthault's sedimentology for the understanding of how multiple deep sedimentary layers are formed simultaneously by a moving current. The depositing of the sediments and subsequent draining of the rising plateau may have happened within weeks of each other, so the ground would have been adequately soft and immeasurably "young". As to the cementation process in rock formation, there is no reason to require long ages for sediment to become rock. We can do it in hours for a concrete sidewalk. How can we know this could happen in the past? The evidence is before our very eyes: The cement we use comes from the rock formations we're taking into evidence -- the rocks are full of these cementers, which we quarry out and grind up for our use. There is no mystery, these rock formations may take months, even years to fully cure, but why assume the hundreds of millions of years required by the standard model? Related, the process of petrifaction is accomplished in hours in the lab, under the right conditions and catalysts. That these conditions existed in the past is inferred [not proven] by the fact that we find petrified remains in all kinds of sedimentary materials. Again, no reason whatever to claim ages of millions of years except to support the requirements of the standard model.

=========================Postby Lloyd » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:40 pm
__GRAND CANYON EROSION
I used to think the Grand Canyon may have been carved electrically, but then I found out that there were two large ancient lakes that just happened to break open and drained through the Grand Canyon. They obviously drained when the sedimentary strata were still not very hard, which is why the canyon became so huge. I think that was a few centuries after the Great Flood, during the Shock Dynamics event.

--------------------Postby GaryN » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:31 pm
__POTHOLES
    <<__Question 6 for Gordon: The Washington scablands that formed from the Missoula flood have potholes that formed by vortex cavitation during the flood, apparently, so were potholes in bedrock under the drift more likely form from flood than from glaciation? Are the scabland potholes ever filled with drift? Maybe this image answers the question: http://www.paddling.net/sameboat/Images/riverpotholes10.jpg - The cobbles in that pothole will be found to be still attached to the bedrock, I have lots of images of the same kind of thing. The cobbles are of a different composition to the bedrock, basalt in my case, which means they were created and metamorphosed just where they now are. Forget water or glaciers, ALL rounded pebbles, cobbles, boulders were created by EM means in a split second.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/garyinsooke/14409266996/in/album-72157636766895323

____________________Postby webolife » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:31 pm
__POTHOLES
I think I disagree with Gary's assessment of the included pebbles in the potholes. In studying eastern Washington potholes, and other hilly basalt areas where pebbles are also found, I find rather that water action is likely responsible for the placement of these stream-rounded non-basalt rocks. In the case of smaller potholes, as were pictured above, the pebbles are agents of cavitation, and as they are forcefully slammed into the basalt by the vertical action, they can become lodged... this is an usual occurrence, but when I've seen it, the pebbles are wedged into crevices or other openings in vesicular basalt, or just laying on the floor of or surrounding the rim of larger potholes. The potholes I studied are those adjacent to Deep Lake in the Sun Lakes State Park, and the hilly areas were south of Vantage around Mattawa, where I hiked to collect petrified wood samples.

=========================Postby Lloyd » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:08 pm
__MAMMOTHS
Frozen Mammoth Questions
I can't figure out if the frozen Arctic animals froze during the Great Flood, or some centuries later. It seems they had to die later, since they mostly didn't drown, but this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IIE8UnvPUg suggests that they died during the Great Flood, when the northern continents moved from their formerly warmer locations to their present ones. But what could have caused the temperature in the Arctic then to suddenly go below -150 F, the temperature needed to flash freeze them and prevent mammoth stomach contents from beginning to digest or rot? Also, what made the Arctic muck and loess and ice pellets that killed some or most of them? The muck contains a lot of smashed tree and animal parts.

--------------------Postby nick c » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:43 am
__MAMMOTHS
On page 3 and 4 of this thread there was some discussion of the frozen wooly mammoth carcasses that are periodically found within the Arctic Circle.
Previously, THE EXTINCTION OF THE MAMMOTH, By Charles Ginenthal was only available as a hardcopy for purchase; the book is now freely available on the net as a PDF here:
http://immanuelvelikovsky.com/Mammoth_01052014.pdf

====================postby Lloyd » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:38 pm
__MAMMOTHS EXTINCTION
- In the thread, Archaeological Find Challenges Standard Geology at http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16219&p=112560#p112559
- I said: I found a good paper online by Oard that I think might help to get a more thorough model for ancient cataclysm completed. Oard's paper is at http://creation.com/defining-the-flood-post-flood-boundary-in-sedimentary-rocks . Maybe you've read it already.

__MAMMOTHS
frozen mammoths, and evidence for the very fast cataclysm that froze them:
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FrozenMammoths.html

====================postby Lloyd » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:29 pm
__GREAT FLOOD VS GLACIATION
- "NOT GLACIAL DRIFT, BUT GREAT FLOOD DRIFT"
Problems in the Glacial Theory
Creation Research Society Quarterly, 13(1):25-34, June 1976
[Note: I'm not a creationist, but they published a lot of good science. I suspect that the great majority of glacial evidence is actually great flood evidence as this article explains.]
- DRIFT
... A layer of unconsolidated material [called drift] ... covers the solid sedimentary and igneous rocks in the temperate zones of Europe and North America. ... A ... similar [layer] occurs in parts of India, in South Africa, the tropical zones of South America, and in many mountainous areas of the world.
<<__Question 1 for Gordon: Do you agree that the drift in India, S Africa & S America suggests that the drift layer was deposited before the supercontinent split, because those 3 areas were adjacent on the supercontinent? Europe & N America were also adjacent. I wonder if the other mountainous areas containing drift are adjacent to both of those two north & south locations.>>
<<__Question 2 for Gordon: Why did the drift not lithify during the flood? Is there any other significant amount of drift that wasn't deposited by the Great Flood? And why are there locations with no drift?>
- The material consists of gravel, sand and clay, with many large boulders of variable composition, and innumerable rounded stones and pebbles of all sizes. Often it is hundreds of feet thick. Frequently stratification exists, and it is usually present in the sand in the pattern of cross stratification.
- Cross stratification: http://www.earth.northwestern.edu/individ/brad/baraboo/geology/pics/crossstrat.gif
- Usually referred to as "drift", the material is also known as boulder-clay, diluvium, outwash deposits, glacial moraine, and till. ... In general, the landforms composed of drift have a remarkably fresh appearance. Although they contain loose material, the effects of erosion have been minimal, showing they could not be of great age but must have been formed recently.
<Glacial Theory> Geologists believe that the last of the ice disappeared only a few thousand years ago.
- The [layer] of drift is shaped into a wide variety of structures, [kames, eskers, rimmed plateaus, drumlins, flutings, striations, potholes & erratics, as follows below]....
<<__Question 3 for Gordon: Can you explain how a megatsunami could produce each of the drift types discussed below, i.e. kames, eskers, rimmed plateaus, drumlins, flutings, striations, potholes & erratics? Or can you give a source that explains them all?>
- Images of kames, eskers, rimmed plateaus, drumlins, flutings, striations, potholes & erratics:
- Kame: https://www.dmr.nd.gov/ndgs/ndnotes/Veblens/Images/Diagram-a-1%20copy.jpg
- Esker: http://8c4625.medialib.glogster.com/media/b1c37420af793bb953a2b933c638f1dc0fc6756daff86b6338c9dd65cdcd4599/esker-with-permission.jpg
- Drumlin: http://www.geo-logic.org/Glacial%20Geology/cd33022%20drumlin%20example001,%20www.royalalbertmuseum.ca.gif
- Fluting: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_7CSUyHA0I8/T_8GPcCqaVI/AAAAAAAAAdA/xIt2PSh4Y5E/s1600/GlacialFluting.jpg
- Striations: https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6174/6139928577_aca529683e_b.jpg
- Potholes: https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-geo-images/ae04a988-67fd-4e09-89ef-314ad88f5b75.jpg
- Erratics: http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/32/x150832-004-CFC3FEC0.jpg.pagespeed.ic.I5bgaOeS82.jpg
- KAMES
- Kames are conical mounds usually composed of sandy material.
<Glacial Theory> [Kames] are thought to have been caused by the dumping of glacial debris when the great ice sheets of the glacial age melted.
- ESKERS
- Eskers are long, winding ridges of gravel and sand.... Sometimes branching eskers occur. The eskers are known to stretch for great distances, go up and down hills, and disappear and occur again further on.
<Glacial Theory> [Eskers] are explained in the glacial theory as the debris of rivers formed in or on the glaciers, that was let down when the ice melted.
- RIMMED PLATEAUS
In the prairie regions of Canada and in the northern states of the United States there are various kinds of rimmed plateau, composed of drift. Often these have central depressions containing clay sediments. The rims are often composed of stony material and contorted drift layers. Some of the rimmed plateau or prairie mounds are of large size, with areas of several square miles, and may reach as much as 150 feet above the surrounding hummocky and pitted regions.
Hummocky: http://www.seddepseq.co.uk/SEDIMENTOLOGY/Sedimentology_Features/Strat_Bedforms/Hummock1.jpg
<Glacial Theory> The rimmed plateau and prairie mounds are explained in the glacial theory as landforms created during the melting of the great ice-sheets. The glaciers, it is believed, sometimes melted in such a way that isolated blocks of ice were formed, that wasted away and deposited their debris in various kinds of rimmed structures and plateau.
- DRUMLINS, FLUTINGS
- Drumlins are hills shaped like the inverted bowl of a spoon.... Glacial flutings are similar, elongated parallel ridges and troughs. Individual flutings may stretch for several miles in the prairies of Canada and parts of North Dakota and Montana.
Drumlins and flutings are ... streamlined landforms ... often composed of drift, but many are bedrock or partly bedrock. Some have a mass of bedrock at their upstream ends. ... In drumlin swarms the drumlins all have locally parallel orientation ... sometimes covering thousands of square miles.
<Glacial Theory> Drumlins and flutings are explained as the effects of the movement of the ice in the glacial theory. The ice-sheet flowing across the countryside shaped and moulded the rocks and previously deposited layers of glacial debris into these remarkable ... landforms....
<<__Question 4 for Gordon: Could the parallel Nebraska dunes be drumlins or flutings? Is there any way an ice sheet could move significantly and streamline any of these drift types?>
- STRIATIONS
- Striations are frequently present on the surface of the bedrock underlying the layer of drift. In some areas the bare rocks uncovered by drift are also scratched and grooved, as if by movement of stones across them.... Within the layers of gravel in the drift there are many rocks and boulders that are striated.
<Glacial Theory> These are thought to have been transported by ice and abraded in the process. ... [Bedrock surface striations are] attributed to the ice-sheets in the glacial theory [with] large numbers of stones being carried along in its base, that gouged the bedrock as the ice-sheet went along.
<<__Question 5 for Gordon: How could megatsunamis make striations on bedrock and on the rocks that they push around?>
- POTHOLES
- In the bedrock underneath the drift, and at many places where the bedrock is exposed, there are deep vertical potholes, ... usually filled up with the drift material, sand and gravel and large boulders.
<Glacial Theory> [Potholes] are often explained by reference to the glacial theory. These are attributed to glacial "moulins" or waterfalls tumbling down crevasses in the ice, that eroded the bedrock and caused these deep holes.
<<__Question 6 for Gordon: The Washington scablands that formed from the Missoula flood have potholes that formed by vortex cavitation during the flood, apparently, so were potholes in bedrock under the drift more likely form from flood than from glaciation? Are the scabland potholes ever filled with drift? Maybe this image answers the question: http://www.paddling.net/sameboat/Images/riverpotholes10.jpg >
- ERRATICS
- Large boulders, ... known as "erratics" ..., are found in some regions with a composition quite different from that of the bedrock [and other drift] in the vicinity. These may sometimes be as large as houses, and are usually rounded, though some are of irregular shape. In the drift there are stones and pebbles of varying composition and appearance, but most of the rocks reflect the composition of the bedrock underneath.
<Glacial Theory> The large boulders ... are considered to have been transported from regions afar by the moving ice-sheets. ...
<<__Question 7 for Gordon: Why is most drift of the same rock type as the bedrock under it? If the flood transported large erratic boulders, shouldn't smaller kinds of drift material also be erratic?>
... ... Flint provides a table of some examples of ... erratics ... [here modified & supplemented]:
- Erratics
 Moved .. Uplifted
distance: height: .. From:
> 18 km; 1000 m; Mount Katahdin, Maine
> 100 km; 900 m; Adirondack Mountains, New York
160 km; 500 m; Allegheny Plateau, central New York
80 km; .. 900 m; Killington Peak, Green Mountains, Vermont
1,300 km; 1,300 m; Rocky Mountains of Alberta
-----------------------------
Moved dist: .. To: .... From:
100-1250 km; UK-Russia; Scandinavia & Finland
1000 km; .... Missouri; Ontario
... km; ..............; Alberta
... km; ..............; Manitoba
... km; ..............; Northwest Territories
... km; ..............; [Ireland &] Wales
... km; ..............; Northern Germany
- These erratics, [many] perched higher than their sources, if they are to be attributed to ice, would require that the direction of the flow of the ice was opposite to the slope of the land. Flint suggested that the stones were carried in the base of the ice, which flowed uphill, rather than that they somehow migrated upwards through the ice. ... How Could the Ice Move Uphill?... Howorth accused the glacialists of departing from the principles of physics and appealing to "transcendental causes". ... Howorth believed that the motivation of geologists who favored the glacial theory was their reluctance to accept a catastrophic alternative. ... In his book Ice or Water he [said:] ... Their real inspiration has been the fervent hope embodied in the words with which Sir R. Ball concludes his ill-fated book on the Glacial Age. "The appeal to ice removed the glacial period from the position of a 'catastrophic' phenomenon. It placed the ice-sheet as an implement at the disposal of the geological uniformitarian."

__ARCTIC CARNAGE
- http://saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thotiv02.txt
- THE DEMANDS OF THE SATURNIAN CONFIGURATION THEORY: Part II
... THE ARCTIC CARNAGE
... Arctic muck ... covers no less than one seventh of the land surface of earth, all of which ... lies within the Arctic Circle. Composed mainly of silt, sand, pebbles, and boulders, it is often accompanied by 'preserved, semi-decayed, or fully decayed vegetable and animal matter.' Its depth, in some places, 'has always caused even the most open-minded geologists to boggle.' The Russians, who have conducted prolonged studies on this muck, have in some places drilled down to more than 4000 feet without reaching rock bottom. Entire forests have been found buried in this area, including plum trees complete with their leaves and fruits, to say nothing of palm trees and huge exotic ferns ... [as well as animals like] the mammoth. ... [T]he Arctic Ocean [itself is] an immense basin scoured out of the living rock. [The north polar tornado/vortex did all that.]
... Entire forests in an uprooted condition, bituminous trunks and fossilized charcoal, are everywhere [in the Arctic] intermingled with petrified ash, and veins of ice, and sand that has turned into sandstone. Among this colossal devastation are found the skeletons of mammoths, rhinoceroses, bison, and horses.
... In the Mahabharata we read that Mandara, that churning mountain, was 'crowded with tusked animals.' Moreover, when the churning began, great trees spun off, were crushed against one another, lightning flashed forth, a fire blazed burning the elephants and other beasts, 'and all the various creatures there lost their life's breath.' The water pouring from above eventually dowsed the fire and flowed into the ocean.
... THE ONSLAUGHT OF ICE
... How did it all freeze? ... This is an easy question to answer. [The ancients] had long associated ... Saturn [on the polar vortex] with snow and hail, ... cold and moist, ... cold and windy, ... cold and frozen, [a] cold star. ... William of Conches ... tells us that 'Saturn is called cold not because he is inherently cold himself but because he causes cold.' ... [T]he Modoc Indians of southern Oregon and northern California [said] the Chief of the Sky Spirits drilled a hole in the sky with a rotating stone through which he pushed snow and ice to form a mound which almost touched the sky. ... Dolph **** informs us: "... we cannot find evidence that Earth's climate grew cold before the advent of an ice age; ... on the contrary, climate grew colder only after the ice arrived and only to the extent that the ice itself refrigerated the Earth.... Obviously the perma-frost accumulated from the bottom upward -- not by freezing from the top downward." What this means is that the detritus which forms the permafrost was frozen as it was being laid down. ... What I am claiming is that the snow, ice, and sleet came from the axial vortex when it was severed for the last time because that is where a vast quantity of terrestrial moisture had been stored.
... The Muria [tribe of] India tell without ambiguity how [the polar god] Mahapurub turned the world topsy-turvy. ... [The Hopi said] "The world, with no one to control it, teetered off balance, spun around crazily, then rolled over twice. Mountains plunged into seas with a great splash, seas and lakes sloshed over the land; and as the world spun through cold and lifeless space it froze into solid ice."

====================postby Lloyd » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:04 am
__ANTARCTICA
- Grey Cloud wrote: Does Antarctica Have A Hidden Layer Of Meteorites Below Its Surface? http://www.universetoday.com/127492/does-antarctica-have-a-hidden-layer-of-meteorites-below-its-surface.
- Did yous see my recent post, Huge Canyon and Crater in Antarctica, at http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1462&p=111136#p111136? The crater seems to have been discovered in 2006 under a km of ice in Wilkesland, while the canyon, over twice as long as the Grand Canyon, but not quite as deep, is in Princess Elizabeth land[?], and was written up last October or so in Geology magazine, I think. The canyon and a fairly large lake are also under a similar depth of ice. The crater is larger than any other known crater in the world at about 250 miles in diameter, but it's only about half as wide as the Somali Basin crater that Mike Fischer located off east Africa.
- The electric charge on bolides comes from friction in the atmosphere, as Charles Chandler explains in great detail, not from electric currents in space, as is theorized but never explained in any detail. The charge does build up enough to cause thermonuclear explosions, either from impacting Earth's surface, or from internal detonation as an airburst. The charge is great enough to carve out rilles near the point of impact.

--------------------Postby Grey Cloud » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:20 am
__GC CRITICISMS
... Atlantis. Why would Solon (Athenian) or the Egyptian priest be using a Cretan script?
- The Oera Linda book, while very interesting, is of disputed provenance. 'Altland' = old land and has nothing to do with Atlantis (the book makes no such claims or inference). If memory serves, it was in the North Sea or possibly the Baltic. There were elephants and coconuts on Atlantis (according to Plato). Incidentally, there is a similar English book known variously as The Kolbrin, The Book of Kolbrin and the Kolbrin Bible, which contains the story (twice) of something called 'the Destroyer' which arrives in the sky and destroys much of life on Earth.
- Aquarius is not a water sign, it is an air sign.
- The biblical flood story is a straight lift of the Sumerian story from the Epic of Gilgamesh. Mount Ararat was not called Ararat in ancient times. Wasn't the OT Ark of equal length and width? In the Phoenician version, they, a sea-faring people, take the vessel out for sea trials before the flood and it's dimensions are more realistic.
- Khem is as far as I know the 'black land'. Egyptian 'Thoth', Greek 'Hermes' and Hebrew 'Cush' have no known etymological or philological connection.
- If you are going to use the OT as a source then I suggest the Septuagint as it is the earliest version or at least compare various versions. The KJV is probably the worst translation-wise.
- Virgin. This is a complicated or complex subject. It can refer to the constellation Virgo and also the universe or the soul for example. e.g. the virgin mother-goddess (the universe) gives birth but remains in her original condition - think closed system.
- "fountains of the great deep". What would Sumerians/Hebrews know of mid-ocean rift zones? Or if they did know, how would a people living in southern Iraq/Middle East know they had opened? To me 'great deep' would refer to space.
- I don't subscribe to Plate Tectonic theory. To me it makes more sense that earthquakes cause the cracks rather than the cracks causing the quakes. Could someone explain the mechanism for the plates pushing against each other? If the Earth is revolving on its axis at over 1,000 mph then would not centrifugal force pull them apart? ...
- CATASTROPHISM WEAKEST POINTS. On the science side there is a necessity to accept some mainstream science whilst at the same time rejecting some. On the ancient textual side there is the infuriating lack of dates, the sheer volume and diversity of the sources and the dubious translations. ...
- Not sure where you are getting the idea that this was one-off event. The ancient textual evidence points to at least two. Science points to several. e.g. Middle Bronze-Age collapse and Late Bronze-Age collapse. The MBA and LBA collapses happened in the eastern Med/ME, China and northern Europe. They may well have affected other regions, e.g. the Americas and Africa but scholars tend to not mention these.
- Rather than global flood I tend to think more in terms of global flooding. e.g. There are three separate floods in Greek myth - of Ogyges, Dardanus and Deucalion. Ogyges was something which happened to Attica; Dardanus lived on Samothrace and ended up in Anatolia, giving his name to Dardania and founding the original city of Troy; Deucalion is Thessaly and is corroborated by modern geology. The plain of Thessaly is a dried up lake bed. Lake was surrounded by moutains, quake split the mountains (Vale of Tempe?), water exited. ...
- Never yet come across an ancient text referring to Saturn as the first sun. In fact I rarely come across mentions of Saturn at all. The main actors appear to be Venus, Mars, Jupiter and the Sun (this one). El is the Phoenician(?) word for Lord.
- My current focus of study in on the LBA collapse in the eastern Med/ME because a) there are more sources and more English translations available and b) it can be tied to actual known historical events if not concrete dates.

=========================Postby Lloyd » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:22 pm
__GC CRITICISMS REPLIES
... 'Altland' = old land ... LK: It could have been the land between Britain and Europe that flooded, could it not?
- GC: Aquarius is not a water sign, it is an air sign. LK: But I think Gray was saying that the Great Flood started when the Sun was in Aquarius. ...
- LK: ... I'm pretty sure the ark was said to be much longer than wide. ...
- LK: I agree the great deep probably referred to space. I had a thread here about Barbara Walker's book, Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets. The deep or great deep was said to refer to space, or the heavens, and was thought of as an ocean. I'm not sure about the fountains, but they may have referred to the fountains or splashes of meteors from space hitting the terrestrial ocean. Gordon says the Hebrew word, matar, likely meant meteors.
- GC: I don't subscribe to Plate Tectonic theory. ... LK: There is no subduction, except that plates can slide over each other, i.e. North America over the Pacific. It looks like subduction at the plate boundary, but the Pacific plate isn't subducting, it's moving horizontally under North America. Charles Chandler explained how the plates can continue to ratchet over each other via electrical tidal forces. The Shock Dynamics video at http://newgeology.us shows how an asteroid impact likely broke up the Supercontinent and caused rapid continental drift.
- GC: ... the Rockies and Andes are new. ... LK: All of the mountain ranges are new, from about 4,000 years ago, while the Flood likely occurred less than 4,400 years ago. ...
- GC: ... global flooding. ... LK: A lot of smaller floods occurred after the Great Flood. The Mediterranean Sea I think would have flooded shortly after the Shock Dynamics event. The Black Sea likely flooded after that. The Grand and Hopi Lakes breached and carved the Grand Canyon soon after the Shock Dynamics event, I think. The other inland lakes in the western U.S. drained around then too, I presume. ...
- GC: ... I rarely come across mentions of Saturn at all. ... LK: The Sun in the various languages initially referred to Saturn. That applies to Sol, Helios, Ra and others. And I just read today that "Cronos [or Kronos - the Greek name of Saturn] is called El by the Phoenicians." [W.A.Heidel, The Day of Yahweh, p470]. I read that in Cardona's book, God Star. And the book shows that Saturn was the main god of the ancients.

--------------------Postby Grey Cloud » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:16 am
__GC CHRONOLOGY
... My views? Multiple catastrophes with the last major one approx 12,000 years ago. The last of the lesser approx 1200BCE. I'm more interested in the human side of things rather than the Earth/science side.
- ... If there was a 'global' flood then it would have been 12000 ya. It can't have been either the MBA or LBA collapses as there were still several peoples, eg, Egyptians, Indians etc who didn't completely collapse. ...
--------------------Postby Grey Cloud » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:37 am
... (As I see it) Venus and Mars were definitely involved in the LBA collapse as were Jupiter and the Sun. Homer makes this clear. Whether Venus was involved in any of the previous incidents is hard to say partly because it is difficult to know in which time period a story takes place.
--------------------Postby Grey Cloud » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:44 pm
... Nanodiamond-Rich Layer across Three Continents Consistent with Major Cosmic Impact at 12,800 Cal BP http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/677046
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Postby webolife» Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:02 pm
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 06:20:39 pm by Admin »

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