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1
SOURCES + OUTLINE / Ancient Global Cataclysm
« on: September 08, 2018, 10:38:52 pm »
(Comment on High-level Timeline of Younger Dryas Impact AND Flood of Noah at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUjWLWoOH6M )

It's nice that you follow Randall Carlson somewhat. He has a good video about Halloween, where he shows that the Taurid meteor stream used to have large objects in it that collided with Earth almost every year around November 1. The source of the impacts was in the direction of the Pleiades, which is in the constellation Taurus.

Ancient Architects is a Youtube channel that covers a lot of ancient events. It shows that Gobekli Tepi likely was a place of refuge after the Younger Dryas event, according to the translation of some of the symbology there. It shows that the Egyptian pyramids were originally only a few layers high and were used for irrigating the land for farming as north Africa was drying out after the impact events. It shows advanced civilization likely existed long before Egypt. Here's the channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCscI4NOggNSN-Si5QgErNCw/videos

An excellent website is http://NewGeology.us which shows that continental drift occurred in a short time period after a huge impact off of east Africa. It includes a page that shows that dinosaur fossils have been C14 dated to between 20 and 30 thousand years ago. Another site or video shows that coal is similarly C14 dated to mere thousands of years instead of millions.

There's a good recent video, called Noah's Flood and Catastrophic Plate Tectonics (from Pangea to Today), at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd5-dHxOQhg which shows that megatsunamis caused the Great Flood. It says it was due to rapid continental drift pulses, but NewGeology shows better that the continental drift was due to an impact. But this video does a good job explaining that these megatsunamis laid down almost all of the sedimentary rock on Earth, which mostly make up the continents. It discusses a herd of adult dinosaurs that were killed all at once in North America by the flood. They were apparently running away from tidal waves and the young ones couldn't keep up, but the waves caught up with the adults too and entombed them all.

John Baumgardner has an excellent paper called Noah’s Flood: The Key to Correct Interpretation of Earth History at https://www.socalsem.edu/noahs-flood-the-key-to-correct-interpretation-of-earth-history/ . His team explains that asteroid impacts caused the megatsunamis that caused the Great Flood.

I have a thread on Ancient Global Cataclysm on the Thunderbolts forum. Here's the latest post which includes a link to your video: http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16025&p=125394#p125394 . You all may like to read through the entire thread, which started a couple years ago.

2
LK2 Fossils & Dating / Gobekli Tepe
« on: April 27, 2018, 09:25:59 pm »
DECODING GOBEKLI TEPE WITH ARCHAEOASTRONOMY: WHAT DOES THE FOX SAY?
http://maajournal.com/Issues/2017/Vol17-1/Sweatman%20and%20Tsikritsis%2017%281%29.pdf
... Many animal remains have also been uncovered in situ (Peters & Schmidt, 2004), covering a wide range of species, mainly mammals but also a few birds and the occasional fish. Importantly, several radiocarbon dating analyses have been carried out. The earliest calibrated date of the organic content of some wall plaster from one of the enclosures (Enclosure D) corresponds to an incredible 11,530 BP +/- 220 years (Dietrich & Schmidt, 2010). This is just at the end of, or shortly after, the YD period. This begs the question, is there any archaeological evidence here of the proposed event that initiated the YD period over 1,000 years earlier?
... Let us now consider another feature of pillar 43. We suggest the carved circle in the visual centre of pillar 43 can be interpreted as the sun, and the pillar is communicating a date, i.e. it is a "date stamp". Normally, the zodiacal epoch is defined by the position of the sun being "in" a particular zodiacal sign at sunrise/sunset on one of four auspicious dates in the year: the spring equinox, summer solstice, autumnal equinox or winter solstice. Using stellarium it is easy to see, when the location is set to Sanliurfa in southren Turkey (which is about 10 miles from Gobekli Tepe) and when we consider these four events1, that the hypothetical date stamp likely corresponds to one of the following four dates (with an error of around +/- 250 years - see Figure 6):
2,000 AD - Winter solstice
4,350 BC - Autumnal equinox
10,950 BC - Summer solstice
18,000 BC - Spring equinox
_These dates correspond to those when, according to stellarium, the sun is slightly above the spout of the teapot asterism of Sagittarius, i.e. when the circle-sun is just above the right wing of the vulture on the pillar. Note that it does not matter if we use the morning sunrise or evening sunset to locate the zodiacal sign - they give the same result. However, the orientation of the constellations with respect to the horizon does depend on the choice of sunrise or sunset, and for the best agreement with Pillar 43 we choose the sunset.
_Let us now consider these dates. We understand Gobekli Tepe is an authentically ancient site, and we can certainly rule out 2,000 AD. Given the established radiocarbon date [of GT] we can also rule out 4,350 BC. Of the remaining two dates, by far the closest to the radiocarbon date is 10,950 BC, based on the summer solstice, and we suggest therefore that this is the most likely date. When the uncertainty in this date estimate is taken into account, it is in very good agreement with an estimate for the date of the proposed YD event, 10,890 BC (Petaev et al., 2013).
... CONCLUSIONS. According to the catastrophist viewpoint, the Younger-Dryas event was probably caused by a cometary encounter with the Taurid complex. Can we now confirm this? No. What we can say is the following:
_ It is very likely that the people of GT had been keen astronomers for a very long time, and the low-relief carvings of animals (except snakes) symbolise specific asterisms. Pillar 43 very likely refers to the date 10,950 BC +/- 250 yrs.
_ There is a consistent interpretation of much other symbolism at GT in terms of the YD event as a cometary encounter, which supports the theory of coherent catastrophism. But we cannot be as confident in this proposal as the proposal for the date stamp. Other evidence from further excavations at GT and other sites may help to clarify this. Evidence linking GT to coherent catastrophism is as follows:
_1) A great deal of physical evidence from a wide range of earth sciences appears to support the proposal that a major event occurred around 10,890 BC. A leading candidate for this event is a cometary encounter consistent with coherent catastrophism. The date stamp on pillar 43 corresponds closely with this date.
_2) That the people of GT remained interested in this date even several millennia later suggests it was a very important event that had a significant impact on their cultural development.
_3) The headless man on pillar 43 indicates the event led to loss of life.
_4) Symbolism on pillar 18 is consistent with an event of cosmic origin. The fox symbolism, in particluar, suggests a cosmic event originating from a specific position. The belt-buckle, "eclipse" and snake symbols are consistent with a cometary encounter. But the symbolism on pillar 18 might be consistent with other astronomical interpretations as well that we have not considered.

3
Off Topic / Favorites
« on: March 28, 2018, 05:49:21 pm »
WEATHER & RIVER
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/missouri/weather-radar?play=1
https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/national/weather-radar?play=1
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/national/weather-forecast-maps
http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=lsx&gage=CAGM7
http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=lsx&gage=GRFI2

MAIL: http://mail.yahoo.com
IMAGES: https://imggmi.com/
IMAGES: http://www.freeimagehosting.net/
CL: http://stlouis.craigslist.org/
OKC: http://okcupid.com/login

SCIENCE
CC: http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=5506
CC: http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6031
TB: http://thunderbolts.info
THOTH: http://www.saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/
CATAS: http://www.catastrophism.com/intro/search.cgi?zoom_query=
MM: http://milesmathis.the-talk.net/forum
CNPS: http://forums.naturalphilosophy.org
CNPS: http://cnps.boards.net
GEOL: http://funday.createaforum.com/index.php

MISC
SLOANE: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acurezone.org%2F+%22truth%2Bin%2Bmedicine%22&ie=&oe=
ECON: https://monetarysov.wordpress.com/2017/12/27/clarity-please-2/
FSP: https://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=63.0
MWM: http://mileswmathis.com/updates.html
CD: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/
XVID: https://www.xvideos.com/video3700378/cfnm_amateur_femdoms_fuck_and_cumshot_facial
WINWIN: http://winwin.boards.net/thread/edit/5
FREETOWNS: http://freetowns.freeforums.net/
LOOK: http://l00k.createaforum.com/index.php
CATALINA: http://catalina.boards.net/
ILPREP: http://ilprep.createaforum.com/1-2/2-4/
BETGOV: http://bettergovt.createaforum.com/index.php
CHR: http://ChristianForums.com LenKin rawanti
CZ: http://www.curezone.org/blogs/f.asp?f=4439
CZ: http://www.curezone.org/login.asp

4
SOURCES + OUTLINE / YD Impact Links
« on: March 27, 2018, 03:12:51 pm »
Subject: More YDI
Date: Fri, March 16, 2018 10:49 pm
I read a paper a few years ago by the Firestone group that showed in detail why those who critiqued their earlier paper were way wrong. First two items may be part of that paper.

Independent evaluation of conflicting microspherule results from different investigations of the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/12/1208603109

Faulty protocols yield contaminated samples, unconfirmed results
http://www.pnas.org/content/110/18/E1651

Clovis Comet? The Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis Gets a Bayesian Beating… And Survives!
http://www.theironsamurai.com/clovis-comet/

(My) Reply to YDI Skeptics (2014)
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/13296.html

Chandler on the YDI Hypothesis
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=13507

Support: comet impact may have triggered the Younger Dryas period (2012)
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/20/support-comet-impact-may-have-triggered-the-younger-dryas-period/

Carolina Bays are shock liquefaction impact features from hypersonic ice boulders launched from glacial ice sheet by cosmic impact at Younger Dryas
https://www.sott.net/article/340456-Antonio-Zamora-in-Geomorphology-Carolina-Bays-are-shock-liquefaction-impact-features-from-hypersonic-ice-boulders-launched-from-glacial-ice-sheet-by-cosmic-impact-at-Younger-Dryas

Last Ice Age happened in less than year say scientists
http://news.scotsman.com/scitech/Last-Ice-Age-happened-in.4351045.jp

The statement that an Ice Age started in less than a year seems entirely plausible, but dating said Ice Age to 13,000 years ago based on varves seems unreliable, as per the following
http://creationwiki.org/Varves

The Northeast impact Zone and the destruction of the Laurentide Ice Sheet
https://craterhunter.wordpress.com/the-planetary-scaring-of-the-younger-dryas-impact-event/a-minnesota-impact-event/

A Catastrophe of Comets (bunch of articles such as 2 following)
https://craterhunter.wordpress.com/
Mirror site: https://feet2thefire.wordpress.com/

The Younger Dryas – The Rest of The Story (2012+?)
https://craterhunter.wordpress.com/the-younger-dryas-the-rest-of-the-story/

A thermal airburst impact structure
https://craterhunter.wordpress.com/the-planetary-scaring-of-the-younger-dryas-impact-event/a-thermal-airburst-impact-structure/

2017
New study claims Göbleki Tepe may have been used to record meteor impacts, including Younger Dryas Event in 10890 BC (Make that 2,000BC)
http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/04/mysterious-ancient-stones-confirm-comet-gave-rise-to-civilizations

2017
Two New Papers Suggest a Catastrophic Extraterrestrial Impact Event Occurred 12,000 Years Ago
http://www.dailygrail.com/Hidden-History/2017/3/Two-New-Scientific-Papers-Suggest-Catastrophic-Extraterrestrial-Impact-Event

2010
Dennis Cox has reported on a major crater field in W Texas and New Mexico (re Younger Dryas: I was communicating with Cox in 2010)
http://www.thunderbolts.info/~thundes2/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=948&sid=4a39abe1b1edd128d22daf01fd6c09d3&start=105#p44247

2012
New evidence of Younger Dryas extraterrestrial impact
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/13/new-evidence-of-younger-dryas-extraterrestrial-impact/

5
LK3 Impacts / YD Impact
« on: March 27, 2018, 03:07:44 pm »
Subject: More YDI
Date: Fri, March 16, 2018 10:49 pm
Hi Mike. I think I read a paper a few years ago by the Firestone group that showed in detail why those who critiqued their earlier paper were way wrong. I thought there was probably a link to it on the Thunderbolts forum, but I haven't found it. Instead, I found the following links that relate to the YDI. Oh, wait. I now found two items that may be part of the paper I remember reading. After these first two items are the other links I found first.

Independent evaluation of conflicting microspherule results from different investigations of the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/12/1208603109

Faulty protocols yield contaminated samples, unconfirmed results
http://www.pnas.org/content/110/18/E1651

Clovis Comet? The Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis Gets a Bayesian Beating… And Survives!
http://www.theironsamurai.com/clovis-comet/

(My) Reply to YDI Skeptics (2014)
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/13296.html

Chandler on the YDI Hypothesis
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=13507

Support: comet impact may have triggered the Younger Dryas period (2012)
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/20/support-comet-impact-may-have-triggered-the-younger-dryas-period/

Carolina Bays are shock liquefaction impact features from hypersonic ice boulders launched from glacial ice sheet by cosmic impact at Younger Dryas
https://www.sott.net/article/340456-Antonio-Zamora-in-Geomorphology-Carolina-Bays-are-shock-liquefaction-impact-features-from-hypersonic-ice-boulders-launched-from-glacial-ice-sheet-by-cosmic-impact-at-Younger-Dryas

Last Ice Age happened in less than year say scientists
http://news.scotsman.com/scitech/Last-Ice-Age-happened-in.4351045.jp

The statement that an Ice Age started in less than a year seems entirely plausible, but dating said Ice Age to 13,000 years ago based on varves seems unreliable, as per the following
http://creationwiki.org/Varves

The Northeast impact Zone and the destruction of the Laurentide Ice Sheet
https://craterhunter.wordpress.com/the-planetary-scaring-of-the-younger-dryas-impact-event/a-minnesota-impact-event/

A Catastrophe of Comets (bunch of articles such as 2 following)
https://craterhunter.wordpress.com/
Mirror site: https://feet2thefire.wordpress.com/

The Younger Dryas – The Rest of The Story (2012+?)
https://craterhunter.wordpress.com/the-younger-dryas-the-rest-of-the-story/

A thermal airburst impact structure
https://craterhunter.wordpress.com/the-planetary-scaring-of-the-younger-dryas-impact-event/a-thermal-airburst-impact-structure/

2017
New study claims Göbleki Tepe may have been used to record meteor impacts, including Younger Dryas Event in 10890 BC (Make that 2,000BC)
http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/04/mysterious-ancient-stones-confirm-comet-gave-rise-to-civilizations

2017
Two New Papers Suggest a Catastrophic Extraterrestrial Impact Event Occurred 12,000 Years Ago
http://www.dailygrail.com/Hidden-History/2017/3/Two-New-Scientific-Papers-Suggest-Catastrophic-Extraterrestrial-Impact-Event

2010
Dennis Cox has reported on a major crater field in W Texas and New Mexico (re Younger Dryas: I was communicating with Cox in 2010)
http://www.thunderbolts.info/~thundes2/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=948&sid=4a39abe1b1edd128d22daf01fd6c09d3&start=105#p44247

2012
New evidence of Younger Dryas extraterrestrial impact
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/13/new-evidence-of-younger-dryas-extraterrestrial-impact/

6
SOURCES + OUTLINE / Miscellany
« on: January 16, 2018, 03:46:52 pm »
Dymaxion World Map for ET
http://geospex.github.io/NSPE_Lectures_sp15/Class_4_Lecture/img/47c4.png
http://geospex.github.io/NSPE_Lectures_sp15/Class_4_Lecture/Class_4_index.html#46

Antarctic pattern
15d40'27.59N  146d3'2.22E

Antarctica = Atlantis = large mass in ocean of space; Cayce predicted Russia would save mankind
JOSEPH FARRELL: ANTARCTICA ATLANTIS! EDGAR CAYCE POSEIDIAN FIRE CRYSTAL - DARK JOURNALIST
Myth: Atlantis = Large Mass that vanished in the Ocean of Space
https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=80-gYbUgoss
Egyptian artifacts found in Turkey at 46' (dating to 10,000BC is wrong)
- https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=I1gVVArdB_g
- https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=enZQt7PldDQ

Olympus Mons to Valles Marineris
https://i1.wp.com/www.volcanocafe.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Mars-Tharsis.jpg?resize=700%2C494

Lightning Data
Data from NASA’s space-based optical sensors revealing the uneven distribution of worldwide lightning strikes.
Units: flashes/km2/yr. Image credit: NSSTC Lightning Team.
http://www.aharfield.co.uk/img/lightningmap_2001.gif
_The estimated peak power per lightning stroke is 10^12 watts (1,000,000,000,000 watts or 1,000 Giga Watts). The total energy in a large thunderstorm is thought to be enough to power the whole of the USA for 20 minutes.
_A tall thunderstorm cloud can hold over a 100 million volts of potential. The voltage potential in a lightning bolt is proportional to its length, and varies depending on the diameter of the bolt, air density and impurities of the air (humidity, dust, ash). The electrical breakdown of air (ionisation) normally take 3,000,000 volts per metre, however with the ambient electric fields of a charged thunder cloud and impurities in the air, ionisation normally takes place at much lower voltages during a storm. Lab tests have shown a leader will advantage if the tip of the streamer is about 4.5kV (4500v) for a negative charge and 5.5kV (5500v) for a positive charge.
_The current in a lightning strike typically ranges from 5,000 to 50,000 amperes depending on the strength of storm. NASA has recorded strikes of 100,000 amperes and there are other reports of strikes over 200,000 amperes.
_[There are few lightning strikes in cold climates or over oceans. Most lightning occurs in central Africa and in all of Africa south of the Sahara, South & Central America & southern U.S., East Indies, eastern south Asia, northern Australia]

AH: Total Lithosphere Thickness
http://peterbird.name/publications/2008_torque_balances/012_total_lithosphere-Earth5N.jpg

Two Deep Wells Oklahoma
http://www.wnd.com/2005/11/33630/
From 1972 through 1974, the company engineered and drilled two Oklahoma natural-gas commercial wells at depths greater than 30,000 feet (approximately 5.7 miles) – the No. 1-27 Bertha Rogers well (total depth 31,441 feet) and the No. 1-28 E.R. Baden well, both located in the Anadarko Basin, and east-west trending basin in West-Central Oklahoma.

Shungite Formed Electrically
http://www.svpwiki.com/Shungite
_Fullerenes are produced by 2 processes: Combustion of carbon-bearing fuels, and high voltage, high current density, electrical discharges through existing carbon deposits, such as coal.
_In the Kerelia region of Northwest Russia, very large deposits of a mineral now known as shungite (some percentage of fullerines is found in all shungite varieties) were discovered and used for water purification, as far back as Napoleon's time.

Shungite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shungite
_Occurrence[edit]
_Shungite has to date mainly been found in Russia. The main deposit is in the Lake Onega area of Karelia, at Zazhoginskoye, near Shunga, with another occurrence at Vozhmozero.[1] Two other much smaller occurrences have been reported in Russia, one in Kamchatka in volcanic rocks and the other formed by the burning of spoil from a coal mine at high temperature in Chelyabinsk.[5] Other occurrences have been described from Austria, India, Democratic Republic of Congo[1] and Kazakhstan.[6]
_Formation[edit]
_Shungite has been regarded as an example of abiogenic petroleum formation,[4] but its biological origin has now been confirmed.[3] Non-migrated shungite is found directly stratigraphically above deposits that were formed in a shallow water carbonate shelf to non-marine evaporitic environment. The shungite bearing sequence is thought to have been deposited during active rifting, consistent with the alkaline volcanic rocks that are found within the sequence. The organic-rich sediments were probably deposited in a brackish lagoonal setting. The concentration of carbon indicates elevated biological productivity levels, possibly due to high levels of nutrients available from interbedded volcanic material.[3]
_The stratified shungite-bearing deposits that retain sedimentary structures are interpreted as metamorphosed oil source rocks. Some diapiric mushroom-shaped structures have been identified, which are interpreted as possible mud volcanoes. Layer and vein shungite varieties, and shungite filling vesicles and forming the matrix to breccias, are interpreted as migrated petroleum, now in the form of metamorphosed bitumen.[3]

_Geo: Study claims Don Juan Pond in Antarctica, among the saltiest waters on Earth, is fed from deep below
https://www.sott.net/article/368156-Study-claims-Don-Juan-Pond-in-Antarctica-among-the-saltiest-waters-on-Earth-is-fed-from-deep-below
_Geo: Mysterious deep-Earth seismic signature explained?
https://www.sott.net/article/368870-Mysterious-deep-Earth-seismic-signature-explained
_Geo: Drilling in Texas leads to uptick in earthquakes
https://www.sott.net/article/369003-Drilling-in-Texas-leads-to-uptick-in-earthquakes-as-sleeping-faults-reawaken
_Geo: 10 easy ways you can tell for yourself that the Earth is not flat
https://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round

Worldwide sedimentary basins + oil producing areas
https://i.stack.imgur.com/avQQz.gif

The Geologic Column and its Implications for the Flood
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/geocolumn/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/geocolumn/basin3.gif

A Global Digital map of Sediment Thickness
https://igppweb.ucsd.edu/~gabi/sediment.html
https://igppweb.ucsd.edu/~gabi/seds/sed.thick.gif

Major types and distribution of sedimentary basins around the world
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/227181317_fig1_Fig-2-Major-types-and-distribution-of-sedimentary-basins-around-the-world-produced
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stefan_Bachu/publication/227181317/figure/fig1/AS:302396665286662@1449108391920/Fig-2-Major-types-and-distribution-of-sedimentary-basins-around-the-world-produced.png

Lithological map of the world
https://hub.globalccsinstitute.com/publications/global-storage-resources-gap-analysis-policy-makers/a21-world-scale
https://hub.globalccsinstitute.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/620xH/publications/23707/advanced/fig-072.jpg

Petroleum Oil
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Petroleum+Oil
https://img.tfd.com/ggse/6e/gsed_0001_0017_0_img4531.png



7
EU DEBATE / 1st Tectonics Discussion
« on: October 23, 2017, 03:04:03 pm »
CNPS SPECIAL PROJECT. (((Sunday 6pm Eastern Time))) -- This Project is expected to last a few months. I hope to have discussions weekly or so.
[NEXT TIME MAYBE: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1N6DSuZNzgPVRcVhct1_voeGVYgMOzkUcflWg1J2ddIM/edit ]
DIRECTIONS: PLEASE STATE INITIALS & FIRST & LAST NAME IN CHAT BOX AT LOWER RIGHT. START EACH PARAGRAPH WITH YOUR INITIALS.
(If this page freezes on your computer, you may need to reopen the link at https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/CritiquePlateTectonics )
_LK: Hi All. Thanks for your participation. This is for live discussion to question mainstream Plate Tectonics & our own alternative models.
---- The Tectonics Models being compared are ET: Expansion Tectonics; PT: Plate Tectonics; ST: Surge Tectonics; EU: Electric Universe; ESU: Electrostatic Universe; & SD: Shock Dynamics (Links at bottom. Bruce & Louis left early comments at the bottom. Bruce's were accidentally deleted.)
_LK: Below I list the main claims of each model in 5 categories of claims. Let's discuss in the spaces between each category. Let me know if I stated any of the claims incorrectly.
PT is the mainstream position. Let's share BRIEF arguments & links to important evidence in each category against PT & Let's ask important questions for each model. More than one person can write at a time (even in different sections).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. HOW THE EARTH FORMED.
<ET: (F:) Earth formed by gravitational accretion as per the Nebular Hypothesis. Then Earth (and other celestial bodies with magnetic fields) expanded significantly over millions of years.
<PT: (F:) Stars & planets form by gravitational accretion of cosmic dust as per the Nebular Hypothesis
<ST: (F:) Earth formed by gravitational accretion as per the Nebular Hypothesis.
<EU: (F:) Condensed plasma, could have been created and destroyed many times
<ESU: (F:) Stars and planets form by implosions of galactic electrostatic filaments, which produce current-free electric double-layers within the bodies, which produce radiation, earthquakes, volcanism etc.
<SD: (F:) The protocontinent [supercontinent] formed from a massive body that also formed the Moon.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_LH: Earth formation - any scientific theory has to be compatible with the culture of the society that uses it. For judeo-christians that means Big Bang model and all its problems. This is the standard model. Proposing acceptable alternatives involves also explaining and replacing the core societal beliefs bundled as religion.
_LK: 1B=Have_ Charles Chandler has the best evidence against the Nebular Hypothesis that I know of. I'll see if I can get the link. He says matter wouldn't accrete in space, that if it condensed too much the heat or hydrostatic pressure would force it apart. __ http//:qdl.sds-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/12682.html
_LH: PN Oat, writing from the Hindu perspective, assumed everything was created "as is" billions of years ago, so a suitable rhetorical assumption could avoid having to deal with the something from nothing idea.
_LH: 1A=Need_ Chandler is right - accretion is not observed, nor can one assume protons accumulating in a core since repulsion has to be factored in. High density phases best explained as Z-pinch products. ===
_LH: 2C=Need_ Planets could be fizzled out stars that are now escaping from Z-Pinch compressive forces? ===
_LK: Bruce, {I meant Louis} can you give more details on how plasma would condense?
_BL: 1B=Have_ Plasma condenses within the Chestahedron geometry, see __Frank Chester wonder of seven. Condensation happens during a charging phase, while plasma dissipation occurs during discharging. The magnetic field also strengthens and weakens from charging and discharging respectively. ===
_MF: The problems with accretion are well known, but I have not focused on this issue. Is the formation of any planetary systems being seen today by astronomers?
_BL: 2B=Need_ The supposed Nibiru, i.e. brown dwarfs near the Sun, seem to be condensation vortices from current charging of the solar system. The coronal holes appear to be the areas where charge enters opened up by magnetic poles of the planets. ===
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. HOW THE CRUSTAL FEATURES FORMED.
<ET: (C:) Earth oceans are where most expansion has occurred at Earth's surface. Earth's mass increase comes from the solar wind, which causes expansion at the core-mantle boundary inside the Earth.
<PT: (C:) Islands formed and mantle convection caused them to slowly form a supercontinent. Mantle convection caused the supercontinent to slowly split apart into continents.
<ST: (C:) Earth shrank significantly over millions of years, due to cooling & the lithosphere contains a worldwide network of deformable magma surge channels in which partial magma melt is in motion, due to Earth contraction and rotation. Flood basalt covering most of the seafloor and parts of continents originated from surge channel ruptures. Oceanization is the tendency of continental land to sink and become seafloor.
<EU: (C:) Electrical circuits heat and cool (expand and contract), Surge Theory with an electrical reinterpretation makes the most sense for our model.
<ESU: (C:) Stars decay, eventually becoming gas giant planets, which lose atmosphere and become rocky planets.
<SD: (C:) A giant meteorite impact north of what is now Madagascar divided the protocontinent into the continents and islands via Shock Dynamics.
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_MF: 1C=Have_ Earth is not currently expanding, according to __Wu et. al. 2011 Geophysical Research Letters Accuracy of the International Terrestrial Reference Frame -- origin and Earth expansion, which uses "multiple precise geodetic data sets" to determine that "the mean radius of the Earth is not changing to within 1 sigma measurement uncertainty of 0.2 mm per yr". They averaged "weekly instantaneous frame origins spanning 26 years of Satellite Laser Ranging observations."
_LH: 3C=Need_ So earth is in volumetric stasis. __Vadim Anfilov years ago interpreted Oz seismic data that shrinkage or cooling is happening.
_BL: 2C=Need_ More likely a pulsating earth due to charging and discharging phases... ===
_MF: 1C=Need_ PT does not explain the positions of crustal features as a whole on the Earth, only locally. However, there is a pattern discernible beginning at a central point just north of Madagascar. Landmasses that moved went away from that point. This is a foundation of SD. ET superficially explains many features, especially if one looks only at the Atlantic Ocean region, but it is no longer obvious in the Southeast Asia region. ET also struggles to explain compression mountain building during expansion, and why mid-ocean ridges show varying speeds at different locations along the ridges, as between the central and south mid-Atlantic ridge. ===
_BL: 3C=Have_ There is an expansion at the equator during El Nino's, from EQ joule heating or warming of the mantle. It moves toward the equator with increasing viscosity and centrifugal forcing. This returns back to a contraction during La Nina. This is according to the __GRACE satellite mission data. Chestahedron geometry shows how this oscillation works. Whether or not there is net expansion or contraction was not addressed in the discussion and remains an open question depending on the time interval under review.
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3. HOW MILE-THICK SEDIMENTARY STRATA FORMED.
<ET: (S:) (See JM Manuscript)
<PT: (S:) Sedimentary rock strata were deposited in shallow seas on the continents over millions of years.
<ST: (S:)
<EU: (S:) Sedimentation occurs constantly, can be chemical precipitates, weathered rock, turbidites etc. -- This has been covered well in many text books
<ESU: (S:)
<SD: (S:) During this Flood orbiting asteroid-caused tsunamis deposited sediment from the continental shelf onto the protocontinent.
- As atmospheric pressure fell, much calcium carbonate precipitated from the sea water, forming thick sedimentary rock with fossils.
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_LH: 4A=Need_ Thick sediments are "usually" explained by erosion of adjacent mountains over long periods of time. Cliff Ollier would call this the "geological cycle", and is the standard model. Problem is that water cannot transport loads on horizontal planes - so having uniform sandstone deposits hundreds of miles laterally requires miraculous water. Even Gerry Pollack can't rig EZ water to do this, so I 've suggested, after watching the Star Wars Rogue One movie, that massive sediments are formed by electrified erosional products of deeply weathered regoliths via a sort of magnetohydrodynamic process. Very catastrophic in nature, however. ===
_LK: 1A=Need_ Louis, what about an asteroid or other large body orbiting Earth causing megatsunamis that swept mud and sand onto the continent/s from the continental shelf forming sedimentary rock? Also, CO2 in seawater degassed and formed limestone? ===
_MF: Is there evidence for "the bulk removal of crust on the Earth"? Do you mean continental crust or mud and sand?
_BL: 4B=Need_ This fits the arc blast concept of ocean basins being removed electrically. ===
_MF: I can imagine it, but where did all the continental crust disappear to? It currently averages 35 km thick.
_LH: 5C=Need_ Adds weight to the Sial-Sima macro structure proposed years ago too. ===
_MF: 2A=Need_ The work of sedimentologist Guy Berthault has demonstrated that moving water carrying sediment deposits multiple layers simultaneously. Over 40 documented "megaflood" deposits illustrate this, as do the Columbia and Mt Saint Helens landscapes. Many sedimentary geological formations extend over hundreds of thousands of square miles. ===
_LH: 6A=Need_ My field experience negates this - flowing water over bedrock is actually EZ water with a liquid crystal internal structure. It cannot pick up sediment loads. Water in bulk mode can. It's like water sliding over the bedrock like a fluidised glacier. However adding plasma forces makes it easier to explain massive sedimentary deposits. ===
_MF: 3A=Need_ Moving water has enormous erosive and carrying power, including large rocks, and loss of flow energy releases the load. ===
_LH: 7B=Need_ Observations of tsunamis making landfall doesn't seem to involve picking up bedrock - every thing on top and loose is picked up. A common error is arguing the consequent - here that sediments are deposited by water, and rivers flow along river beds, so hence the sediments are formed by the rivers. Isolated gravel deposits, such as chevron deposits abutting highlands, are explained as being put there by massive tsunamis. Load carrying tsunamis cannot carry any load over an ocean. They can only carry a load that they have excavated from bedrock but when a tsunami makes landfall, it rapidly runs out of energy as there is nothing "driving" the wave front. Plunking a stone in a pond causes tsunami-like waves to form but these are effects of the impact made by the stone being plunked into the pond. These waves dissipate into the background the further away they are from their initial generating force. Tsunamis making landfall very quickly run out of steam or energy. Videos of the latest Japanese events suggest the water body is behaving like a massive liquid crystal moving laterally over the land with great power. Not surprising if it is EZ water. ===
_MF: 4A=Need_ The assumed source of sediment is previously eroded bedrock, not the bedrock itself. The tsunamis doing the work are assumed to be cross-continental. ===
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4. HOW MOUNTAIN RANGES FORMED.
<ET: (O:) Mountain ranges occur near continental edges due to reduction in the Earth's radius of curvature that occurs with expansion at the surface.
<PT: (O:) Mountain ranges formed slowly from continental collisions and magma plumes etc.
<ST: (O:) Mountain ranges are formed by vertical uplift from below.
_There is Earth's core, mantle and crust interaction, in which thermal energy from the core is the fundamental energy source of global tectonic activities including earthquakes, volcanoes, rise and sink of the Earth surface, and global climate as well
<EU: (O:) Arc Blast or Static discharge between planets and the sun seem to be primary factors -- Recent field work, can be shared.
[Mountain ranges were formed from electric discharges from the Sun or a large planet that heated a large discharge channel, which expanded, uplifting mountains.]
<ESU: (O:) Mountain ranges were formed by rapid continental drift due to a large asteroid impact.
<SD: (O:) The movement of plates raised nearly all of the mountain chains via horizontal compression, and initiated global volcanism.
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_MF: 5B=Have_ "Virtually all major mountain ranges in the world are a consequence of crustal shortening." From: __Some Simple Physical Aspects of the Support, Structure, and Evolution of Mountain Belts. Peter Molnar, H. Lyon-Caen. Special Paper 218, Geological Society of America, 1988, pp. 179-207.
_LH: 8A=Need_ Agreed - but what then is the horizontal force that operated? PT can explain this. ET cannot by definition. Electric plasma effects could by forming strong lateral variants of Lorentz Force as a peripheral effect of a distal electromachining process eroding regolith and upper crust to form ocean basins. Strange that mountains are associated with subducted plates causing shortening or accretion. Rather than ocean plate moving, the plasma arc stripped the regolith and crust off, forming the ocean basin, and as a peripheral effects laterally compressed the adjacent remnant crust, along with volcanic activity etc resulting from the massive inputs of energy into the system. ===
_BL: 5A=Need_ Arc blast in the Grand canyon pushed up the Rockies, the thrust faulting is huge and needed sever energy to have that amount of thrust. ===
_MF: If that happened, wouldn't the Rockies be concentric around the Grand Canyon?
_BL: 6C=Need_ It didn't stop at the Grand Canyon, but traveled up the river systems of the Colorado and Green river creating the current morphology about 12,900 years ago when the Carolina Bays were formed also during the 12,900 megafaunal extinction event... ===
_MF: 6A=Have_ PT is too weak to raise mountain chains. Numbers from the literature have values in this range: Slab pull: 500 bars, 450 bars ("subduction pull"), 300 bars; Ridge push: 200 bars, 250 bars, 250 bars, 200-300 bars, 200-400 bars; Basal drag: 200 bars, 200 bars. And basal drag is considered to be an opposing force to plate movement except beneath cratons. The stress required for crustal shortening to build mountains is hard to find, but has been calculated to be in a range from 1500 to 2500 bars up to 4000 to 6000 bars, inferring the latter "from earthquake data and evaluation of the stresses required to produce specific geological structures". In the case of South America, the combination of ridge push and forward basal drag (by trench suction) could produce only 400 to 600 bars of force, which is clearly insufficient to build the Andes. These forces are already engaged in moving the entire plate westward.
_LK: Mike, I had your reference for that saved up. __It's http://www.newgeology.us/Plate%20Tectonics.pdf
_MF: 7A=Need_ This is one of the problems with PT, that it is okay at explaining the current situation but not the origin. This applies not only to mountain chains, but to the origin of subduction and the splitting of continental crust. A large force, as in SD, is required. ===
_LK: Mike, I'm putting your initials at the beginning of each of your paragraphs, so I know who said what.
_LH: 8B=Need_ Well mountains are readily explained by PT, :-), but whether it is real or not. One fact is __Ollier and Pain's work - that many so-called mountains are actually old landsurface remnants that had their surrounds eroded away. This leaves the highly compressed mountains requiring large horizontal forces. Cosmic scaled electric arcs, as described by Oz aboriginals as Rainbow Serpents, or as Van De Waals phenomena could generate large Lorentz forces in the horizontal plane. ===
_MF: Is the ESU position on mountain ranges really the same as SD? ===
_LK: 2B=Need_ Yes, Charles accepts your model somewhat, but he thinks the continents moved apart more slowly.
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5. WHAT CAUSED ICE AGES & GLACIATION.
<ET: (GL:) (See JM Manuscript)
<PT: (GL:) Glaciation was caused by cooling.
<ST: (GL:)
<EU: (GL:) Cosmic Ray density with particle cascades creating storms, volcanic eruptions and global envelope of cloud cover leading to ice ages. Glaciation is a small subset of the ice ages and increases every winter more snow accumulates than melts. -- I can bring some references on cosmic rays
<ESU: (GL:)
<SD: (GL:) Movement of continents toward the poles along with atmospheric moisture and volcanic and impact dust led to glaciation.
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_BL: 7C=Need_ Seems to be tied to increasing cosmic ray density as we pass through certain sections of space in the various Milankovitch cycles. ===
Increased cosmic rays = increased particle precipitation = increased charging, increased lighting and storms and increased volcanic activity leading to increased clouds and solar shielding. Ice ages cometh, when earth reaches a certain capacitance the earth and likely the whole solar system is involved, arc blast ends the ice ages melting the caps, flooding from the poles, and twisting the planet's axis creating tsunamis from the oceans, piling animals from various climes together. Classic Velikovsky...
_MF: 8B=Need_ Rather a basketful of assumptions there. An Ice Age would seem to require greatly increased atmospheric moisture, as in heating the oceans, at the same time the atmosphere is cooling dramatically in at least one hemisphere. And this continues for a long time following sudden instigation. Classic SD. ===
_LH: 9C=Need_ Years ago I had an email discussion with Gerry Pollack and I raised the issue of whether ice forms at the poles as a consequence of excess protons entering the ionosphere and surface, thus forming ice. If a body of water, say an ocean, has EZ water as a surface layer, and an inrush of protons occur, then that EZ water gets turned into ice as a reaction to the increased energy supplied by the protons. Hence ice ages could be explained as massive injection of protons via CME's etc, Animals seem to be mainly made of water, in this case EZ water, and an inrush of protons could actually snap-freeze life forms almost instantaneously. This mechanism could explain the snap-freezing of mammoths. So a super Carrington event could be interpreted as an ice-age? The mechanism here is that ice ages are not caused by a drop in temperature but, paradoxically , an in crease in the system's energy state. ===
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_LH: 10A=Need_ Preliminary comment: Whatever mechanism is proposed, gravity remains the elephant in the room. Empirically gravity seems electrical in nature, and if so there are at present more than 20 models proposed for the electron, whether particle or wave. This does not help much in understanding gravity. Rock density is a fundamental physical measurement and relies totally on a correct understanding of gravity. Mantle convection, for example, assumes lower density for higher temperature, everything else being equal. Or lower density is linked to pressure which is caused by gravitational attraction with less dense rising and more dense sinking, eebe. Solar explanations such as proposed by Robitaille etc, assume gravity. Mantle pressure in the Earth assumes gravity. Rivers and streams flow because of gravity, and hence erosion is caused, ultimately, by gravity. Weather is caused by density differentials in the atmosphere caused by gravity. Geological evolution assumes gravity and accretion, cosmological to the smallest bolide. If electrical forces EM AND gravity are considered then we have a problem of magnitude, EM force is 10^38 greater in magnitude than gravity force. We cannot combine the two as a unified "field" because if one is assume a magnitude 1, say EM Lorentz force, then gravity is so small in magnitude it can be ignored, and which is what A.J. Peratt did with his PIC computer simulations using plasma. If gravity can be ignored as an assumption of mass attracting mass, then alternative mechanisms need to explain non-plasma phenomena in lieu of Newtonian gravity. This leads directly to the problem of rock density which is a fundamental physical property of condensed matter, It leads directly to isostasy, from which PT was developed, so explaining rock density becomes crucial., because it is an essential theoretical axiom on which the rest is deduced. ===
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ET: Expansion Tectonics __ James Maxlow __ http://www.expansiontectonics.com
PT: Plate Tectonics __ Wikipedia __ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics
ST: Surge Tectonics __ Dong Choi __ http://ncgt.org __ http://forums.naturalphilosophy.org/show...hp?tid=113
EU: Electric Universe __ (Ralph Juergens, deceased), Wal Thornhill, Don Scott __ http://holoscience.com __ http://thunderbolts.info __ https://www.iascc.org/the-science
ESU: Electrostatic Universe __ Charles Chandler __ http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6031
SD: Shock Dynamics __ Mike Fischer __ http://NewGeology.us , (LK1-4) http://funday.createaforum.com/index.php
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_LK: WE CAN ALL BRING UP QUESTIONS & COMMENTS BELOW NOW & GO UP ABOVE TO SEE WHAT TO ASK ABOUT IF NEEDED.
_CS: Before we really get into it, I would like to ask two things.
1. Did math solutions give us the very real orthogonal fracture/megatrend intersections and vortex structures on the ocean floor?. ===
2. Did geophysics give us the 1-2 Ga rocks on the magnetic 180 Ma ocean floor? ===
_LH: Lloyd, the color scheme you are using black letters on green background also has a mauve component that is unreadable. :-)
_LK: I don't control the colors. You can go to the gear symbol at upper right and click on Authorship colors to change the background to white.
_LH: You can adjust your own colours by clicking the coloured square next to your name. Took me a while to work it out.
_RF: 1A=Have_ Lloyd have you considered adding the work of Michael Csuzdi to your list of global tectonic models? Thermionic Emission Geophysics__: http://breakthroughinenergy.com
_LK: I haven't heard of that, but always willing to add other ideas. Do you favor it for something?
_RF: 2B=Need_ I think Csuzdi missed an opportunity; his model sees Earth's magnetic field as originating from within the Earth rather than externally. ===
_LK: 3A=Need_ That's how Charles sees it too. He finds that the planets and stars likely have CFDLs and the charges in different layers can speed up or slow down as during impacts, causing the field to change. ===
_LH: 11B=Need_ The internal origin for the geomagnetic field was, at the time it was proposed, logical since we did not know about the Van Allen belts, solar wind, etc. Just that the Sun was an irradiating source, space was empty in which was suspended an inert globe, the earth. Which had a magnetic field that could only be located inside the earth. Much progress has since been made but the theory hasn't changed. This is the problem. [LH thinks the field is Externally generated.] ===
_BL: 8C=Need_ [to CS] 1.) The orthogonal fracture zones (don't know about the math) but geometry again controls. This pattern can also be seen in the eight layers of the human heart, the Chestahedron geometry shows this relationship is tied to "vortex geometry" where all the platonic solids are contained within the chestahedron. The inner double layer of the inner and outer core has tetrahedron or fire element geometry as evidenced by the magnetic spike structure (Quinns inverse magnetic modeling techniques show the delta- y configurations of Giovanni Gregoris "Sea Urchin Spikes"). The next double layer in the mantle has the square "earth" geometry as evidenced by the four north south circuits on the ridges along the corners of the cube, global heat flow and mantle gravity signatures attest to this. As you move up into the water or dodecahedron geometry, you see the hurricanes follow these circuits which are part of the vile vortex system., the air has double diamond or double pyramid structure, this is seen in the Total Electron Content data where the points of the triangles actually point to where EQ [earthquakes?] will occurs sometimes, then there is the aether pentagon geometry where the plasma comes into the poles. Each double layer has its specific geometry, this was the beauty of Plato's forgotten knowledge. The vortex geometry of the chestahedron contains all the platonic solids and is responsible for the harmony or balance of electromagnetic forces linked to or controling the Golden ration or Fibonacci fractalization sequences... ===
_BL: 9B=Have_ The polarity of magnetic stripes on the seafloor has only been confirmed in 7 places by the Deep Sea Drilling Project, magnetic data is collected generally by shipborne and airborne scalar and sometimes vector magnetometers. Most of the stripes are simply what's called susceptibility contrasts and are not confirmed as polarity reversals. __Art Meyerhoff, author of surge tectonics has a good article on this; I don't have the link but it is covered in his text on Surge tectonics. He also states that many of the magnetic stripes are not parallel to the ridges, some are actually perpendicular to the ridges. The electrical orientation of the circuit determines the orientation of the stripe.
_LK: Bruce, I'd love to have a link to that info on magnetic stripe data.
_LK: I read Meyerhoff's book and copied some of it. The book didn't mention the magnetic stripes that I know of. It's good that the article apparently did though.
_MF: According to the numbered issues, this discussion is about the Earth rather than the universe. Apparently there has not been much thought on these issues. It is clear that there are collisions occurring in the galaxy, and perhaps there is exclusive evidence for electrical interaction? How could the electric universe concept [be tested] conceivably be disproved?
_LK: The CFDL theory of Earth might be disprovable. That's current-free electric double-layers.
_MF: How would that be done?
_LK: 4A=Need_ It's part of the Earth, so we have better access than off-planet. Also, calculations can be made to determine feasibility. Charles has found that spacing of plasma cells in the lab and the spacing of planets and of stars in globular clusters all follow the same law or formula. So, knowing the charge on planets should tell us something about whether the planets could be repelled from each other according to that formula. ===
_MF: Is Earth positively or negatively charged?
_LK: 5C=Need_ The planets, as Charles says, have electric double-layers, so they're both charges, but I think they're more positive than negative. Anyway the atmospheres are positive. Charles & others say the Sun is more negative than positive, but the outer layer is positive there too. ===
_BL: 10B=Have_ Also there are the double layers within the earth that have opposite charges, this can be seen in the double layers of __Quinn's inverse modeled magnetic source depth data.
_BL: 11B=Need_ The poles have opposite charges. LK has the answer on repelling planets, I would agree... you can see this in __experiments with small steel balls... ===
_MF: So would Earth repel another planet? It is surprising that planets mimic small steel balls.
_LK: 6C=Have_ Charels' findings suggest that all the planets repel each other. I can look for his paper on that. __ http//:qdl.sds-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/15369.html
_LH: 12B=Need_ Negatively - mainly by the oceans having a surface layer of EZ water. Magnitude is diurnal. ===
_MF: 9B=Need_ Magnetic polarity and intensity have also been found to change with depth in oceanic crust. ===
_BL: 12B=Need_ As well as within cores of volcanic rxs. Polarity and intensity seem to change and rotate within the layers indicating the polarity and intensity are controlled locally via the volcanic electrical system and not a global orientation related to N-S poles... ===
_LK: Bruce, can you get me a link to that evidence from volcanic cores? What's rxs?
_BL: Rxs... abbreviation for rocks. This is stuff I read years ago, I'd have to search for those references. I may have it referenced in one of my publications, but that will take time to find again...
_LH: An earth in a gravitational or electrical environment? At present the whole edifice of Plate Tectonics and Expanding earth are based on the gravitational model. But plasma physics, the Peratt model, ignores gravity. If so then all the tectonic features that we observe on the Earth are presently explained by the gravitational model. Instead we need to explain things in an electrical model.
_LH: Proving the Electric Universe model requires falsifying the Western Cultural paradigm. This is a problem.
_LK: I don't think Western religions stand in the way of science much any more.
_LH: Describing the Earth's evolution requires a starting point, and this remains controversial. Most US geologists seem to favour a short chronology, others a long one. I had the same issue when I edited AIG News - the long chronologists did not like editorial favourable to the short-chronologists being published. It got to rather an excitable situation.
_MF: So long folks. [Disappointing discussions] on the topics, which are worthwhile.
_LK: Mike, what part of the country are you in? You're welcome to make suggestions to improve discussions. I'll try to organize better or find better ways to get info from everyone.
_MF: North Carolina
_LK: A question for you EU people. Looks like there are one or two of you here still, since Louis left. I'm an ESU person, rather than EU. The question is: Is a vacuum an insulator or a conductor, or neither or both?
_BL: Is there really such a thing as a total vacuum, seems to be an idealized mathematical construct, but if there's a few particles in there depending on what it was it seems it could be either or both...
_LK: 7C=Need_ Charles says a vacuum has no resistance to charge. So I think he says interplanetary discharges would likely not occur as EU theorists have said. I should get him here to explain, though, since he has the info. ===
_BL: 13B=Need_ The concept of interplanetary discharge is simply static electric discharge, and we know the solar wind is full of particles, thus the assumption of a vacuum related to our solar system is mute... ===
_RF: 3B=Need_ Vacuum Circuit Breakers are used in high voltage power systems to extinguish the electric arc. ===
_LK: 8B=Need_ Would it be fairly easy to test in a vacuum chamber whether a vacuum is more conducting or insulating? I know Charles referenced some data from satellites or something that indicated that vacuum is "conducting". ======
_BL: Why the insistence the solar wind is a vacuum?
_LK: I don't know the density of the solar wind, but I'm guessing that on Earth it would be considered a vacuum? Do you know the density? Is it some tens or hundreds of particles per cc?
_BL: 14C=Have_ Depends on whether your interested in proton density or other particles,__ http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ lot of information on solar wind properties at that link.
_LK: Thanks, Bruce. I guess we can wrap up soon, if there's not a lot of info to share yet. Do you's have more questions or comments or suggestions how to have better discussions?
_BL: Final comment, the one that got deleted earlier. Seems to me we should begin to understand the tectonic domain as a weather system, where Giovannis Sea urchin spikes are the pressure cells, the plate boundaries or surge channels are the stream flows, like jetstreams, and frontal boundaries, where counter flows to the mantle must exist in the asthenosphere or volcanics. The Westward drift of the magnetic field indicates an deep mantle trade wind etc. The plate tectonic concept of linear upwelling is like the idealized mathematical construct of the net heat flow model of Hadley Cell circulation in the atmosphere. It doesn't exist in actual flow dynamics. If you were a weatherman and all you could report on was heat is rising at the equator and moving towards the poles and you model doesn't allow the existence of pressure cells, stream flow or frontal boundaries, much less trade winds, you couldn't say much about the weather. This is the problem with plate theory, it's driver is based on an idealized mathematical construct that is simple to understand in a text book, but has no basis in reality... That's it in a nutshell, signing off, enjoyed the discussion... ======
_LK: Thanks for repeating that, Bruce. Good Day. I'll try not to delete that this time. Are you in Colorado or Florida?
_BL: Florida
_LK: Robert, do you have a link to your main info? Is it summed up somewhere?
_RF: Which info would that be, Lloyd.
_LK: Info on Tectonics.
_RF: 4A=Have_ __ http:breakthroughinenergy.com

8
CNPS Structured Discussion / Comparing ET with Other Geology Theories
« on: August 08, 2017, 08:33:37 am »
Goal is to make a Table that compares Expansion Tectonic theory with other Geological theories.

First, I'm listing CNPS papers on ET.

This is the present alphabetic arrangement with possible main topics added before each title. Some of the titles may be miscategorized. After this will be the list arranged alphabetically by subject.

Category: Expansion Tectonics

__A
_Africa) _On The Ages of African Land-Surfaces
_Galaxies) _An Analysis of 900 Rotation Curves of Southern Sky Spiral Galaxies: Are the Dynamics Constrained to Discrete States?
_Tectonics) _Architectonics of the Earth
_Satellites) _Are Artificial Satellites Orbits Influenced by an Expanding Earth?
_Atlas) _Atlas of Continental Displacement, 200 Million Years to the Present
__B
_Biogeography) _Biogeography in a Changing World
__C
_ZPEnergy) _Cosmology and the Zero Point Energy
_ZPEnergy<?>) _Cosmology and the Zerto Point Energy
_Theories) _Creeds of Physics
_ContainerSpace) _A Critical Note Concerning Conventional Container Space Concepts
_Crust) _Crustal development and sea level : with special reference to the geological development of southwest Japan and adjacent seas
__D
_Dinosaurs) _Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth - Second edition (ebook)
_QM<?>) _Discrete Time Realizations of Quantum Mechanics and their Possible Experimental Tests
__E
_Palaeo-Magnetism) _Early Palaeozoic Palaeo-Magnetism and Biogeography - Plate tectonics or Expansion?
_GeoComplexity) _Earth Complexity vs. Plate Tectonic Simplicity
_Expansion) _Is the Earth Expanding (Dehnt sich die Erde aus?)
_NebHyp+Subduction) _Earth IS Expanding Rapidly: Kant's Nebular Hypothesis and Subduction are False
_ObjectionsSolved) _Earth Expansion Major Objections Solved
_Earthquakes) _Earth Expansion and the Prediction of Earthquakes and Volcanicism
_MassIncrease) _Earth Expansion Requires Increase in Mass
_PermianClimate) _The Earth Expansion Theory and the Climatic History of the Lower Permian
_Universe) _Earth, Universe, Cosmos
_Expansion) _Earth is Unquestionably Growing and Expanding
_Evidence) _Education Concept of Earths Expansion: Main Grounds, Space-Geodetic and Paleomagnetic Evidence, Metallogenic Consequences
_Electrodynamic) _Electrodynamic Origin of Gravitational Forces
_Galaxies) _Empirical Evidence on the Creation of Galaxies and Quasars
_Electrodynamics) _Evidence For Weber-Wesley Electrodynamics
_Expansion) _An Evolutionary Earth Expansion Hypothesis
_Continents) _The Expanded Earth: The Continents Positioned by Radical Movement Due to Expansion; a Craftsmans Look at the Globe
_Expansion) _Expanding Earth?
_Expansion) _The Expanding Earth
_Expansion) _Why the Expanding Earth?
_Sea-FloorSpreading) _An Expanding Earth on the Basis of Sea-Floor Spreading and Subduction Rates
_Causes) _The Expanding Earth: Evidence, Causes and Effects
_Gravity) _The Expanding Earth: Evidence From Temporary Gravity Fields and Space-Geodetic Data
_Gyrotation) _The Expanding Earth: Is the Inflation of Heavenly Bodies Caused by Reoriented Particles under Gyrotation Fields?
_InnerCore) _The Expanding Earth : The Inflation of Heavenly Bodies Demands for a Compression-Free Inner Core
_Catastrophism) _Expanding Earth, Or Natural Catastrophism
_Expansion) _The Expanding Earth: A Sound Idea for the New Millenium
_Cause) _Our Expanding Earth, the Ultimate Cause
_Overview) _Expansion Tectonics: An Overview
__F
_Universe) _Finite Theory of the Universe, Dark Matter Disproof and Faster-Than-Light Speed
_Fixed-Earth) _Fixed-Earth and Expanding-Earth Theories -- Time for a Paradigm Shift? -- Version 2
_Cartography) _Fossils, frogs, floating islands and expanding Earth in changing-radius cartography
_Expansion) _The Fourth Revolt
_Fuels) _Fuels: A New Theory (Second Edition)
__G
_Causes) _Geological-Geophysical Proofs and Possible Causes of Earth Expansion
_Eduction) _Global Eduction Tectonics of the Expanding Earth
_Explanation) _Global Expansion Tectonics - A More Rational Explanation
_PhysicsChallenge) _Global Expansion Tectonics: A Significant Challenge for Physics
_Models) _Global Models of the Expanding Earth
_InflatingSun) _On the Gravitational Constant of Our Inflating Sun and On the Origin of the Stars' Lifecycle
_Gravito-MagneticInflation) _The Gravito-Magnetic Inflation of Rotating Bodies and the Nature of Mass and Matter
_Gravitomagnetism) _Gravitomagnetism: Successes in Explaining the Cosmos
_Earthquakes) _Great And Old Earthquakes Against Great And Old Paradigms ? Paradoxes, Historical Roots, Alternative Answers
_Expansion) _The Growing and Developing Earth
_Expansion) _The Growing Earth
__H
_Hydrocarbons) _Hydrocarbons in the Context of a Solid, Quantified, Growing and Radiating Earth
__I
_Sphere-Cylinder) _Interbasis "Sphere-Cylinder" Expansions for the Oscillator in the Three-Dimensional Space of Constant Positive Curvature
__L
_Expansion) _The Land of No Horizon
_Subduction) _Is Large Scale Subduction Made Unlikely By The Mediterranean Deep Seismicity?
_Impacts) _Lava Flows from Disruption of Crust at the Antipode of Large Meteorite Impacts
_Relativity<?>) _Le Verrier Historical Mistake that Created Relativity Stupidity
_Light) _Light Propagation in an Expanding Universe
_AstronomicalObjects) _Limitations on Viewing Distant Astronomical Objects
__M
_Hoax) _Mankind's Greatest Hoax
_Plumes) _Mantle Plumes and Dynamics of the Earth Interior - Towards a New Model
_SunVelocity) _Marinov's Toothed-Wheels Measurement of Absolute Velocity of Solar System
_Mountains) _On the Mechanism of Mountain Building and Folding
_Plates) _Migrating Fossils, Moving Plates and an Expanding Earth
__N
_EarthInterior) _A New Dynamic Conception Of The Internal Constitution Of The Earth
_BlackHoles<?>) _The No-Hair Theorem Parameters can be Reduced to solely the Black Hole's Specific Angular Momentum
_RottnestIsland) _Nuteeriat: Nut Trees, the Expanding Earth, Rottnest Island, and All That
__O
_Granite) _The Origin of Granite and Continental Masses in an Expanding Earth
_Mountains) _The Origin of Mountains
_UniversalSystems) _Origins of Universal Systems
_OrogenicModel) _An Orogenic Model Consistent with Earth Expansion
_Hilgenberg) _Ott Christoph Hilgenberg in twentieth-century geophysics
__P
_Palaeomagnetic) _Palaeomagnetic Evidence Relevant To A Change In The Earth's Radius
_Palaeopoles) _Palaeopoles on an Expanding Earth: A Comparison Between Synthetic and Real Data Sets
_Comprehensive) _Five Para-Myths and One Comprehensive Proposition in Geology
_Redshifts) _Periodicity in Extragalactic Redshifts
_Philosophy) _A Philosophy of the Expanding Earth and Universe
_SouthernHemisphere) _Physical Explanation for Greater Earth Expansion in the Southern Hemisphere
_Diamagnetism) _The Pivoted Current Element and Diamagnetism
_Expansion) _Is Planet Earth Expanding?
_Eocene) _Planet Earth Expanding and Eocene Tectonic Event
_Dynamics) _Beyond Plate Tectonics: 'Plate' Dynamics
_PT) _Plate Tectonics and this Expanding Earth
_PT) _Is Plate Tectonics Standing the Test of Time
_PT) _Plate Tectonics Subducted
_Microphysics) _On the Possibility of a Rationalistic Approach to Microphysics
_DarkMatter) _Possible Relation Between Earth Expansion and Dark Matter
_DeepDrilling) _The Primordially Hydridic Character of our Planet and Proving it by Deep Drilling
_Plates) _Principles of Plate Movements on the Expanding Earth
__R
_Expansion) _Rapid Earth Expansion: An Eclectic View
_IncreasingGravity) _Relationship Between Gravity and Evolution: The Theory of the Increasing of Gravity
_PolarMotion) _Releaions Among Expanding earth, TPW, and Polar Motion
__S
_Test) _A Simple Physical Test of Earth Expansion
_SunVelocity) _A Simplified Repetition of Silvertooth's Measurement of the Absolute Velocity of the Solar System
_Expansion) _Once a Smaller Earth
_Expansion) _The Solid, Quantified, Growing and Radiating Earth
_Electron) _On the Space-time Structure of the Electron
_Planets) _The Spacing of Planets: The Solution to a 400-Year Mystery
_Subduction) _Subduction: The Extent and Duration
_Superluminal<?>) _On Superluminal Velocities
_ST) _Surge Tectonics: A New Hypothesis of Global Geodynamics
__T
_DeepSeismicData) _The tectonic structure of the continental lithosphere considered in the light of the expanding Earth theory? a proposal of a new interpretation of deep seismic data
_IslandArcs) _Tension - Gravitational Model of Island Arcs
_Expansion?) _Terra non Firma Earth
_PalaeomagneticData) _A Test of Earth Expansion Hypotheses by Means of Palaeomagnetic Data
_Theories) _Theories of the Earth and Universe: A History of Dogma in the Earth Sciences
_Expansion) _The Theory of the Expanding Earth
_Thermal) _The Thermal Expansion of the Earth
__V
_Unorthodoxy) _A Venture in Unorthodoxy
_Petroleum) _Voyage of Discovery: A History of Ideas About the Earth with a New Understanding of the Global Resources of Water and Petroleum and the Problems of Climate Change
__W
_Sea-floors) _Wandering Continents and Spreading Sea-floors on an Expanding Earth

-------------------------------------------------------

Category: Expansion Tectonics (by Subject)

_Africa) _On The Ages of African Land-Surfaces
_AstronomicalObjects) _Limitations on Viewing Distant Astronomical Objects
_Atlas) _Atlas of Continental Displacement, 200 Million Years to the Present
_Biogeography) _Biogeography in a Changing World
_BlackHoles<?>) _The No-Hair Theorem Parameters can be Reduced to solely the Black Hole's Specific Angular Momentum
_Cartography) _Fossils, frogs, floating islands and expanding Earth in changing-radius cartography
_Catastrophism) _Expanding Earth, Or Natural Catastrophism
_Cause) _Our Expanding Earth, the Ultimate Cause
_Causes) _Geological-Geophysical Proofs and Possible Causes of Earth Expansion
_Causes) _The Expanding Earth: Evidence, Causes and Effects
_Comprehensive) _Five Para-Myths and One Comprehensive Proposition in Geology
_ContainerSpace) _A Critical Note Concerning Conventional Container Space Concepts
_Continents) _The Expanded Earth: The Continents Positioned by Radical Movement Due to Expansion; a Craftsmans Look at the Globe
_Crust) _Crustal development and sea level : with special reference to the geological development of southwest Japan and adjacent seas
_DarkMatter) _Possible Relation Between Earth Expansion and Dark Matter
_DeepDrilling) _The Primordially Hydridic Character of our Planet and Proving it by Deep Drilling
_DeepSeismicData) _The tectonic structure of the continental lithosphere considered in the light of the expanding Earth theory? a proposal of a new interpretation of deep seismic data
_Diamagnetism) _The Pivoted Current Element and Diamagnetism
_Dinosaurs) _Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth - Second edition (ebook)
_Dynamics) _Beyond Plate Tectonics: 'Plate' Dynamics
_EarthInterior) _A New Dynamic Conception Of The Internal Constitution Of The Earth
_Earthquakes) _Earth Expansion and the Prediction of Earthquakes and Volcanicism
_Earthquakes) _Great And Old Earthquakes Against Great And Old Paradigms ? Paradoxes, Historical Roots, Alternative Answers
_Eduction) _Global Eduction Tectonics of the Expanding Earth
_Electrodynamic) _Electrodynamic Origin of Gravitational Forces
_Electrodynamics) _Evidence For Weber-Wesley Electrodynamics
_Electron) _On the Space-time Structure of the Electron
_Eocene) _Planet Earth Expanding and Eocene Tectonic Event
_Evidence) _Education Concept of Earths Expansion: Main Grounds, Space-Geodetic and Paleomagnetic Evidence, Metallogenic Consequences
_Expansion?) _Terra non Firma Earth
_Expansion) _An Evolutionary Earth Expansion Hypothesis
_Expansion) _Earth is Unquestionably Growing and Expanding
_Expansion) _Expanding Earth?
_Expansion) _Is Planet Earth Expanding?
_Expansion) _Is the Earth Expanding (Dehnt sich die Erde aus?)
_Expansion) _Once a Smaller Earth
_Expansion) _Rapid Earth Expansion: An Eclectic View
_Expansion) _The Expanding Earth
_Expansion) _The Expanding Earth: A Sound Idea for the New Millenium
_Expansion) _The Fourth Revolt
_Expansion) _The Growing and Developing Earth
_Expansion) _The Growing Earth
_Expansion) _The Land of No Horizon
_Expansion) _The Solid, Quantified, Growing and Radiating Earth
_Expansion) _The Theory of the Expanding Earth
_Expansion) _Why the Expanding Earth?
_Explanation) _Global Expansion Tectonics - A More Rational Explanation
_Fixed-Earth) _Fixed-Earth and Expanding-Earth Theories -- Time for a Paradigm Shift? -- Version 2
_Fuels) _Fuels: A New Theory (Second Edition)
_Galaxies) _An Analysis of 900 Rotation Curves of Southern Sky Spiral Galaxies: Are the Dynamics Constrained to Discrete States?
_Galaxies) _Empirical Evidence on the Creation of Galaxies and Quasars
_GeoComplexity) _Earth Complexity vs. Plate Tectonic Simplicity
_Granite) _The Origin of Granite and Continental Masses in an Expanding Earth
_Gravito-MagneticInflation) _The Gravito-Magnetic Inflation of Rotating Bodies and the Nature of Mass and Matter
_Gravitomagnetism) _Gravitomagnetism: Successes in Explaining the Cosmos
_Gravity) _The Expanding Earth: Evidence From Temporary Gravity Fields and Space-Geodetic Data
_Gyrotation) _The Expanding Earth: Is the Inflation of Heavenly Bodies Caused by Reoriented Particles under Gyrotation Fields?
_Hilgenberg) _Ott Christoph Hilgenberg in twentieth-century geophysics
_Hoax) _Mankind's Greatest Hoax
_Hydrocarbons) _Hydrocarbons in the Context of a Solid, Quantified, Growing and Radiating Earth
_Impacts) _Lava Flows from Disruption of Crust at the Antipode of Large Meteorite Impacts
_IncreasingGravity) _Relationship Between Gravity and Evolution: The Theory of the Increasing of Gravity
_InflatingSun) _On the Gravitational Constant of Our Inflating Sun and On the Origin of the Stars' Lifecycle
_InnerCore) _The Expanding Earth : The Inflation of Heavenly Bodies Demands for a Compression-Free Inner Core
_IslandArcs) _Tension - Gravitational Model of Island Arcs
_Light) _Light Propagation in an Expanding Universe
_MassIncrease) _Earth Expansion Requires Increase in Mass
_Microphysics) _On the Possibility of a Rationalistic Approach to Microphysics
_Models) _Global Models of the Expanding Earth
_Mountains) _On the Mechanism of Mountain Building and Folding
_Mountains) _The Origin of Mountains
_NebHyp+Subduction) _Earth IS Expanding Rapidly: Kant's Nebular Hypothesis and Subduction are False
_ObjectionsSolved) _Earth Expansion Major Objections Solved
_OrogenicModel) _An Orogenic Model Consistent with Earth Expansion
_Overview) _Expansion Tectonics: An Overview
_Palaeo-Magnetism) _Early Palaeozoic Palaeo-Magnetism and Biogeography - Plate tectonics or Expansion?
_Palaeomagnetic) _Palaeomagnetic Evidence Relevant To A Change In The Earth's Radius
_PalaeomagneticData) _A Test of Earth Expansion Hypotheses by Means of Palaeomagnetic Data
_Palaeopoles) _Palaeopoles on an Expanding Earth: A Comparison Between Synthetic and Real Data Sets
_PermianClimate) _The Earth Expansion Theory and the Climatic History of the Lower Permian
_Petroleum) _Voyage of Discovery: A History of Ideas About the Earth with a New Understanding of the Global Resources of Water and Petroleum and the Problems of Climate Change
_Philosophy) _A Philosophy of the Expanding Earth and Universe
_PhysicsChallenge) _Global Expansion Tectonics: A Significant Challenge for Physics
_Planets) _The Spacing of Planets: The Solution to a 400-Year Mystery
_Plates) _Migrating Fossils, Moving Plates and an Expanding Earth
_Plates) _Principles of Plate Movements on the Expanding Earth
_Plumes) _Mantle Plumes and Dynamics of the Earth Interior - Towards a New Model
_PolarMotion) _Releaions Among Expanding earth, TPW, and Polar Motion
_PT) _Is Plate Tectonics Standing the Test of Time
_PT) _Plate Tectonics and this Expanding Earth
_PT) _Plate Tectonics Subducted
_QM<?>) _Discrete Time Realizations of Quantum Mechanics and their Possible Experimental Tests
_Redshifts) _Periodicity in Extragalactic Redshifts
_Relativity<?>) _Le Verrier Historical Mistake that Created Relativity Stupidity
_RottnestIsland) _Nuteeriat: Nut Trees, the Expanding Earth, Rottnest Island, and All That
_Satellites) _Are Artificial Satellites Orbits Influenced by an Expanding Earth?
_Sea-floors) _Wandering Continents and Spreading Sea-floors on an Expanding Earth
_Sea-FloorSpreading) _An Expanding Earth on the Basis of Sea-Floor Spreading and Subduction Rates
_SouthernHemisphere) _Physical Explanation for Greater Earth Expansion in the Southern Hemisphere
_Sphere-Cylinder) _Interbasis "Sphere-Cylinder" Expansions for the Oscillator in the Three-Dimensional Space of Constant Positive Curvature
_ST) _Surge Tectonics: A New Hypothesis of Global Geodynamics
_Subduction) _Is Large Scale Subduction Made Unlikely By The Mediterranean Deep Seismicity?
_Subduction) _Subduction: The Extent and Duration
_SunVelocity) _A Simplified Repetition of Silvertooth's Measurement of the Absolute Velocity of the Solar System
_SunVelocity) _Marinov's Toothed-Wheels Measurement of Absolute Velocity of Solar System
_Superluminal<?>) _On Superluminal Velocities
_Tectonics) _Architectonics of the Earth
_Test) _A Simple Physical Test of Earth Expansion
_Theories) _Creeds of Physics
_Theories) _Theories of the Earth and Universe: A History of Dogma in the Earth Sciences
_Thermal) _The Thermal Expansion of the Earth
_UniversalSystems) _Origins of Universal Systems
_Universe) _Earth, Universe, Cosmos
_Universe) _Finite Theory of the Universe, Dark Matter Disproof and Faster-Than-Light Speed
_Unorthodoxy) _A Venture in Unorthodoxy
_ZPEnergy) _Cosmology and the Zero Point Energy
_ZPEnergy<?>) _Cosmology and the Zerto Point Energy

9
CNPS Structured Discussion / BN-LK Discussion Highlights
« on: June 14, 2017, 11:05:08 pm »
__« April 22, 2017, 01:20:31 pm »
Major Unexplained Science Facts & Alternative Models
LK Ideas for Organizing a Wiki
1. Plans to Improve the Scientific Method
2. List Major Fields of Science
3. List Major Science Facts & Flaws for Main CNPS Wiki Topics
(See Sample Wiki thread.)
Paraphrasing Bruce's Forum/Wiki Ideas
a. Tell readers the goal is to produce one or more papers and Wikis.
- Ask readers to submit other flaws &/or alternative theories
b. To structure the topic put it into the forum as 3 co-located threads.
- Create an outline of the local discussion & put it in your “coordination” post.
- Use Mark’s MIT MAP concepts: Questions ( ? ),  Ideas ( lightbulb),  pros and cons (thumbs up and down ) etc.
Aether Lattice Holes Theory
DEMOCRACY:
__« April 23, 2017, 11:37:33 am »
Invite: TB Members possibly interested in helping Improve Science:
bdw000, BirdyNumNums, Brigit Bara, Chan Rasjid, chut, Cubit32, D_Archer, dd6, Elder, fractal-geoff, GaryN, GenesisAria, Grey Cloud, jacmac, JCG, JeffreyW, JHL, jimmcginn, Keith Ness, Kuldebar, Melusine, philalethes, Phorce, phyllotaxis, Pi sees, Plasmatic, pln2bz, popster1, RayTomes, Roshi, Rushthezeppelin, saul, seasmith, Solar, Sparky, StefanR, trevbus, Webbman, Zelectric, ZenMonkeyNZ, Zyxzevn
__« April 23, 2017, 11:50:36 am »
RESOURCES
__« May 07, 2017, 12:08:53 pm »
<BN: Phone
Catastrophism Topic
Expansion Tectonics
So, a way to find people for your ideas is to post a request on that forum
A second way is to compose an article for the monthly newsletter
getting the newsletter, send a note directly to David de Hilster
Third, there is a blog on the main website
Re sedimentary rock strata, first do some literature analysis on the history of this topic
LK's List of Topics
I put a new forum in there for you: The Scientific Method.
The list of facts and flaws is one of the issues I wanted to talk to you about directly.
__May 8, 9AM
do a test right here on FUNDAY
__« May 11, 2017, 05:14:55 pm »
Message to Dave Talbott re Wiki
I started a thread called, Need Data to Help Create Alternative Science Wiki
I have gotten a Catastrophism board and E.U. boards etc at the CNPS forum.
__Postby Lloyd » Thu May 11, 2017 4:06 pm
Initial preferred topics for discussion are:
Catastrophism: Ancient Global Cataclysm
Mythology: Ancient Myths
Earth Sciences: Global Tectonics
Astronomy: Solar Science
__« May 21, 2017, 01:56:44 pm »
>BN: the CNPS Wiki a collection of alternative science papers
would help to establish a system for evaluating them
Making the list of essential elements of each theory or claim
then a process for evaluating each element
CNPS could publicize the best theories
__Sunday, May 21, 2017 2:45 PM
<Bruce: find me ANY MM reports
system for evaluating is my next TOP priority
publishing a summary of what elements of ALL the papers were good breakthroughs
reward great Peer Reviewers
Peer Review Guidelines [from web search]
__5/23/17 8:50AM
>Bruce: date on the threads
experiment with "peer reviewers"
__« May 23, 2017, 09:21:11 pm »
"sticky" function
date labeling
email string
"probable" reviews would give a theory a high place in a WIKI
summary reference to the dissents
many theories submitted
PHOTON; challenge this definition
prioritizing
__5/23 9 PM
>Bruce: date labeling
P.U.T structured format
invite members
Space Lattice Theory
rate P.U.T.
__Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:38 PM
<Bruce: suggest a better title
membership fee
Lattice Theory
rating a few P.U.T. Elements
__5/24 7:33 PM
Hi Bruce: discussion thread
I started 3 threads for "theory rating"
I included the reasons for my I-ratings
__« May 26, 2017, 07:28:59 pm »
<BN: Inviting members
"discussion summary" as a "status report"
"coordination": coordination of the discussion
"external inputs": to focus or promote the discussion
"documentation"
Possible solution
__May 26, 2017, at 12:55 AM
>Bruce: Why wouldn't each topic in the forum have a Working Paper thread?
__Friday, May 26, 2017 10:39 AM
<Bruce: multiple purposes for the structured forum
break down disagreements among members
structure to improve all discussions
separate resolution
member recruitment, CNPS marketing, promotion of papers, and expansion of conferences
coordinating scientific research
cover the needed structure issues
__5/26 7:11 PM
Hi Bruce: your structured forum goals
A. Attempt to resolve disagreements among members:
B. Set up bibliographies to reduce newbies' questions:
C. Each section develop goals, like doing experiments, writing papers ... :
D. Improve & promote CNPS & scientific research:
CNPS forum survey eventually
1st - purpose, status report & assignments
2nd - wiki working paper
3rd - bibliography & important outside viewpoints
discussion section
__Saturday, May 27, 2017 5:33 PM
<Bruce: Important threads; using a "sticky" function
bibliographies < many forums making a few contributions each
8. Definitions
__Wednesday, May 31, 2017 7:25 AM
<Bruce: I can't do the rating without details
I don't find value in the a simple rating scale
help locate interested people
__5/31) 11AM)
>Bruce: "help locate interested people
encyclopedic list of good alternative theories
PUT rating I, which was helpful
__6/1 - 11AM
>Bruce: let members start their own threads in any of those 9 sections
let moderators request moderator-controlled threads
consulted with any forum experts?
__« June 02, 2017, 09:55:43 pm »
Hi Bruce: start one or two threads in section 1
your critique of my 8-point scientific method
repeats of the MM experiment
5-part idea
Store raw data
Self-organize teams to rectify false media claims
corporate greed
__Monday, June 5, 2017 1:45 PM
<BN: Members can post new Threads, but not "forums"
email notification
MM experiment repeats
raw data
__« June 09, 2017, 02:29:14 pm »
REVIEW PROCESS
__Friday, June 9, 2017 10:00 AM
<Bruce:  I ratings vs P (probable) " ratings
guide a number of members to review them in depth
be published by CNPS + indexed
__Fri 6/9 2:23PM
>Bruce: look for fellow reviewers?
essential elements of P.U.T. that most interest me

10
EU DEBATE / COMET ELECTRICAL EROSION
« on: June 08, 2017, 08:21:50 pm »
Comet mesa and crater erosion by electrical surface erosion.

See electrical erosion of Comet Temple I in the 47 to 50 minute segment of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wtt2EUToo

A mesa on Temple I shows electrical[?] erosion over a short period of time in 2005, shortening the mesa by 50 meters after sunspot and solar wind activity had increased significantly.

Here are images from the video.

11
EU DEBATE / May 30
« on: May 30, 2017, 11:21:06 pm »
LK QUESTIONS
<LK to RF>
Q1: Have you done or read any calculations on EDM that support those ideas in  detail?
Q2: Do you know of experiments that show that EDM can erode surfaces like that and  produce partly melted clays and quartz sand?
Q3: A close encounter between planets would surely raise very high tides, causing  megatsunamis, so why would not the cavitation effect produce the sand from granite  bedrock and the tsunamis account for the sediment deposition and erosion, leaving  behind some mesas?
Q4: Doesn't water erosion produce dendritic patterns?
Q5: The EU team accept much of Velikovsky's evidence on catastrophism, and  Velikovsky referred to violent winds that occurred, so wouldn't the winds account  for loess and volcanism account for deep sea ash?

------------------------------------------

<RF to LK>
INTERPLANETARY ELECTRIC DISCHARGE
_[See] ‘An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics’:  https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16534
_See: https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16534#p116159
_(Johnson. Robert. 2014. Massive Solar Eruptions and their contribution to the  causes of Tectonic Uplift. NCGT Journal Vol.2 No.1.)  _http://www.ncgtjournal.com/assets/NCGT_Journal_Contents_March_2014.pdf
_demonstrates that an external source of energy arising from massive solar  eruptions is likely to have been available on rare occasions in past eras.
_electric discharges to the Earth’s surface many orders of magnitude larger than  present-day lightning strikes would result from the impact of an extreme Coronal  Mass Ejection.
_The energy delivered directly to the crustal strata could have been sufficient to  contribute to uplift via many of the existing thermal expansion and phase change  models.
>>>_Rapid ion diffusion in the electric fields associated with the discharges is also  likely to have occurred, thereby potentially offering a solution to ‘the granite  problem’.
_(Gold, 1962, discussion p. 170) considered what effect a more massive solar  eruption would have on the Earth
_the increased solar wind pressure would drive the inner edge of the Earth’s  [outer] magnetosphere down into the upper atmosphere
_storm-generated electric currents would then encounter great resistance
_the path of least resistance is to short down in a massive and continuous  ‘lightning strike’ or discharge through the atmosphere, run through the more  conducting surface of the Earth, and short back up to the magnetosphere in a second  discharge to close the circuit back to the magnetosphere (figs. 1 and 2)
_huge direct currents of “hundreds of millions of Amps” would run in the surface of  the Earth
_Robert Johnson proposes that just such electrical discharges acted to uplift  modern mountainous regions
_Such currents would flow if either Earth encountered another celestial body or  Earth’s electrical environment changed
_I see such discharge altering Earth’s surface gravity which may have contributed  to the vertical tectonics at that time
_(see ‘An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics’ for my views on vertical  tectonics).
_We can picture both electrical and physical processes generating sediment but wave  action certainly did not sculpt Mt Everest
_the dendritic patterns of mountain ranges must have an electrical origin
_Paul Anderson has done work in this respect. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=c7w1rGeqXBg
_“Paul Anderson uses fractal analysis to determine what process –fluvial or  electrical- shaped the various landforms on the Earth, the main focus being canyons  and riverbeds.
_This analysis is then compared to electrical discharge patterns recorded in  laboratory experiments.
_Water flow does not appear to form structures with as many branches, particularly  perpendicular branches, as do electrical events.
_the current from the source must have been higher than it is today in the present auroras.
_The auroral process would have extended well beyond the current northern and  southern locations,
_and once the atmosphere could not support the ionization it would break down in  the form of electric discharges.’
_mountain formation was not only due to electrical uplift but also due to  electrical erosion.
_In this image of the Tibetan Plateau the rim has been eroded to form snow-capped  mountain ranges.
_“This is the pattern we see the world over
_What strata escaped being metamorphosed were eroded, pulverised and scattered by  intense electrical winds
_(something similar but on a vastly reduced scale still occurs on Mars today

<>Are you referring to global dust storms from electrified dust devils?
<>Do you see dendritic patterns on Mars from that?

ASH & DUST
_In the same thread I write: “Ashes and Dust
_Large areas of the Earth’s strata and surface record what geologists perceive as  ‘massive volcanic eruptions’ quite often these prehistoric eruptions dwarf any  recorded eruption.
_For example, Dinosaur National Monument (Utah, USA) is part of the Morrison  Formation which covers some 700,000 square miles.
_Part of the formation is: ‘dominated by silica-rich volcanic ash representing  explosive volcanism on a colossal scale
_A staggering quantity of volcanic materials, estimated at more than 4,000 cubic  miles, occurs within the thin but widespread Brushy Basin Member in Wyoming, Utah,  Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona.
_No volcano is known within the boundary of the Morrison deposit, no local lava  flows are known within the Morrison boundary, and geologists place the nearest  explosive volcanic source vents in southern California or Nevada.
_How these coarse volcanic materials in such colossal quantities were distributed  on so wide a scale remains a mystery.’(15)
_“The Worzel Deep Sea Ash consists of colourless shards of volcanic glass with an  index of refraction of 1.500 and varying in size from 0.07 to 0.2 mm.
_There is no particle size sorting.
_Most of the shards are in the form of curved, fluted, or crumpled films of glass.
_A minority are nearly equidimensional fragments of silky pumice.
_No crystalline minerals have been found.
_In all important respects it is similar to material which has been classified as  volcanic ash in the deep-sea deposits of the world.
_On preliminary examination, the ash of the Worzel layer appears to be quite  similar to the ash layer which occurs in a suite of cores from the Gulf of Mexico.
_Rex and Goldberg have found quartz particles of continental origin in abundance in  Pacific sediments as much as 2,000 miles from the nearest continent
_The ash is entirely unlike material described as meteoritic dust.’
_“The researchers concluded: ‘Apparently we require either a single very large  volcanic explosion, or the simultaneous explosion of many volcanoes
_or a cometary collision similar to that suggested by Urey as explanation" for the  origin of tektites.’
_In other words a global cataclysm is required to account for the ash.
>>>_However, if we look at the chemical composition of the ash (17) we find it shares similar chemical properties with granite (18).
_“Loess covers about 10% of the Earth’s land surface
_according to Michael Oard it is generally considered to be wind-blown (Aeolian)  silt.
_It is composed mostly of quartz grains, with minor portions of clay and sand often  mixed with the silt.
_Loess is commonly intermixed vertically with ‘paleosols’, which are supposedly  fossil soils that have been preserved in the geologic record or buried deeply  enough that it is no longer subject to soil forming processes.
_Scientists previously believed the silt particles in loess were derived from ice  abrasion, but they now believe that loess has both a glacial and non-glacial  origin.
_In central China it is up to 300m thick.
_Millions of woolly mammoths and other Ice Age animals are mostly entombed in loess  in non-glaciated areas of Siberia, Alaska and the Yukon Territory of Canada.
_Wind blown material is common within the Ice Age portion of the Greenland ice  cores.
_“Whether it be ‘volcanic ash’, deep sea ash or loess, all this material may be the  by-product of the electrical erosion that occurred during the mountain forming  period.
_material eroded in the early stages may have been deposited whilst marine  incursions were still ongoing
_this material would have been incorporated into marine strata and interpreted as  ‘volcanic’.
_During the latter stages when marine transgressions had subsided electrical dust  storms would have scattered the material globally- eventually to settle on the  ocean floor or entrap ‘Ice Age’ mammals.
_“Furthermore, marine sponge spicules have been identified in loess,
_we have already seen that the fossilised remains of sea creatures have been found  atop Mount Everest
_it is likely that the remains of sponges originated from the uplifted uppermost  sedimentary strata pulverised and scattered by an electrical discharge

RADIOACTIVE CRATER
_Louis Hissink https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2017/05/03/indian-impacts- hammerhead-geology-by-louis-hissink/
_Woolfe Creek Crater with its radioactive crater rim is an electrical discharge  producing radioactive elements in situ.

GRANITE
_Given the association of radioactive elements with granite
_and great masses of granite are found to have been emplaced among deformed and  metamorphosed sedimentary strata to form enormous granite bathyliths in the cores  of major mountain ranges
_Granite is never found outside mountain belts (Bucher, 1950, p. 37).”
_There's a link between electrical discharges and topographic uplift

------------------------------------------

MT ST HELENS EROSION
Dendritic erosion at Mt. St. Helens Fig. 3
http://www.icr.org/research/index/researchp_sa_r04

SOIL EROSION
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/27/d1/f2/27d1f2af2117530c81dd959e6be06873.jpg

GRANITE
Wikipedia: Occurrence
Granitic rock is widely distributed throughout the continental crust. Much of it was intruded during the Precambrian age; it is the most abundant basement rock that underlies the relatively thin sedimentary veneer of the continents. Outcrops of granite tend to form tors and rounded massifs. Granites sometimes occur in circular depressions surrounded by a range of hills, formed by the metamorphic aureole or hornfels. Granite often occurs as relatively small, less than 100 km˛ stock masses (stocks) and in batholiths that are often associated with orogenic mountain ranges. Small dikes of granitic composition called aplites are often associated with the margins of granitic intrusions. In some locations, very coarse-grained pegmatite masses occur with granite.
Origin
Granite has a felsic composition and is more common in recent geologic time in contrast to Earth's ultramafic ancient igneous history. Felsic rocks are less dense than mafic and ultramafic rocks, and thus they tend to escape subduction, whereas basaltic or gabbroic rocks tend to sink into the mantle beneath the granitic rocks of the continental cratons. Therefore, granitic rocks form the basement of all land continents.

LOESS
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/images/loess_deposits.gif
Loess is a sedimentary deposit composed largely of silt-size grains that are loosely cemented by calcium carbonate.

Distribution and composition of loess sediments in the Ili Basin, Central Asia
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618213009877
The bulk mineral components of the Ili loess are dominated by quartz and feldspar with minor amounts of calcite, chlorite, mica, dolomite and hornblende. More than 20 types of heavy minerals were observed with major components of amphibole, magnetite and epidote. The major elements of the Ili loess are characterized by high abundance of SiO2, Al2O3 and CaO and minor amounts of Fe2O3, MgO, Na2O and K2O.

WORZEL ASH
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,244845,245282

The "Worzel Ash" (Los Chocoyos Volcanic Ash)
Author: Xebec ()
Date: June 26, 2008 03:47AM
legionromanes wrote:

"The debris Venus allegedly deposited in Earth's atmosphere causing 40 years of darkness after the Exodus left no trace in the world's ice caps or ocean bottoms, [See "Ice Cores", Kronos X:1, 1984, 97-102, or Appendix D at end of [abob.libs.uga.edu].] a test ignored by Rose [and an example of negative evidence with which Velikovskians do not have a good track record of dealing. N.B.: The "Worzel Ash" touted by Velikovsky and his epigoni is known to be volcanic (to the exclusion of any other source) from eruptions in Central America, limited in extent (i.e., not global), and far older than 3500 years; see "The Worzel Ash," Kronos X:1, 1984, 92-94 or section "The 'Worzel' Ash" in Mewhinney's "Minds in Ablation". (12-III-99) .]"

Note "Minds in Ablation Part Seven: Dust" is at: [ www.pibburns.com ]

The extent of the "Worzel Ash" of Worzel (1959) and as discussed by Ewing et al. (1959) and Anders and Limber (1959) is now known to have been vastly overestimated. Detailed research published by Bowels et al. (1973), Drexler et al. (1980), Ledbetter (1984, 1985), and Ledbetter and Sparks (1979), which included trace element analysis and dating by biostratigraphy, oxygen isotope stratigraphy, and radiometric methods not performed by Worzel (1959), show that what he mapped as the "Worzel Ash" actually consists of a number of different beds of volcanic ash that vary greatly in age. They found that the "Worzel Ash" was not a single global ash bed. From the trace and minor element analysis of 128 volcanic ash samples from 56 cores, Bowles et al. (1973) concluded that the unit, which Worzel (1959) mapped as the "Worzel Ash" consists of different ash beds of differing ages including three regionally widespread volcanic ash beds. Ledbetter and Sparks (1979) found what they called the "Worzel D ash" to be the distal counterpart of the rhyolitic Los Chocoyos ash-flow tuff of Guatemala and both were the result of a caldera ("supervolcano") eruption. Drexler et al. (1980) found that the "Worzel D" (Los Chocoyos) ash was created by a massive caldera eruption of the Atitlan caldera, which buried the much of the Guatemalan Highlands and Pacific coastal plain under a thick layer of ignimbrite and spread volcanic ash from Florida to Ecuador. Drexler et al. (1980) contains a map showing the distribution of the Los Chocoyos ("Worzel D" and Y8) ash bed. In this eruption, the Atitlan caldera erupted 270-280 cubic kilometers of volcanic material and created a huge volcanic caldera now filled by Lake Atitlan (Rose et al. 1987).

More coring and detailed geochemical analyses by Ledbetter (1985) of ash layers recovered from cores in the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Ocean adjacent to Central America defined 11 distinct ash beds within the sediments underlying the Gulf of Mexico and Pacific Ocean surrounding Central America. He was able to delineate the extent of each of the ash layers. The two most widespread ash layers, the Los Chocoyos ("Worzel D") ash bed was estimated to be 84,000 years old and the Worzel L ash bed was estimated to be 230,000 years old. Ledbetter (1984) noted that the Y8 ash bed in Gulf of Mexico is the same as the Los Chocoyos (Worzel D) ash bed.

The distributions of the Los Chocoyos (Worzel D) and other regionally extensive volcanic ash beds (tephras) are shown in figure 2 (page 6) of Machida (2002). In this figure, The Wozel D ash is ash deposit no. 26.

References

Anders, E., and N. Limber, 1959, Origin of the Worzel Deep-Sea Ash. Nature. vol. 184, pp. 44-45.

Bowels, F.A., R.N. Jack, and I.S.E. Carmichael, 1973, Investigation of Deep-Sea Volcanic Ash Layers from
Equatorial Pacific Cores. Geological Society of America Bulletin, vol. 84, no. 7, pp. 2371-2388
DOI: 10.1130/0016-7606(1973)84<2371:IODVAL>2.0.CO;2

Drexler, J.W., W.I. Rose, Jr., R.S.J. Sparks, and M.T. Ledbetter, 1980. The Los Chocoyos Ash, Guatemala: a major stratigraphic marker in middle America andin three ocean basins. Quaternary Research, vol. 13, pp. 327-345.

Ewing, M., B.C. Heezen and D,B. Ericson, 1959, Significance of the Worzel Deep Sea Ash. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. vol. 45, No. 3, pp. 355-361.

Ledbetter, M.T., 1984. Late Pleistocene tephrochronology in the Gulf of Mexico region. In N. Healy-Williams, ed., pp. 119-148, Principles of Pleistocene Stratigraphy Applied to the Gulf of Mexico. IHRDC Press, Boston.

Ledbetter, M.T., 1985, Tephrochronology of marine tephra adjacent to Central America. Geological Society of America Bulletin. vol. 96, no. 1, pp. 77-82.
DOI: 10.1130/0016-7606(1985)96<77:TOMTAT>2.0.CO;2

Ledbetter, M.T., and R.S.J. Sparks, 1979, Duration of large-magnitude explosive eruptions deduced from graded bedding in deep-sea ash layers Geology. vol. 7, no. 5, pp. 240-244
DOI: 10.1130/0091-7613(1979)7<240:DOLEED>2.0.CO;2

Machida, H. 2002, Quaternary Volcanoes and Widespread Tephras of the World. Global Environmental Research. vol. 6, no. 2, pp. 3-17. [ www.airies.or.jp ]

Rose, W.I., C.G. Newhall, T.J. Bornhorst, and S. Self, 1985, Quaternary silicic pyroclastic deposits of Atitlan Caldera, Guatemala. Journal of Volcanology and Geothermal Research. vol. 33, no. 1-3, pp. 57-80.

Worzel, J.L., 1959, Extensive deep sea sub-bottom reflections identified as white ash. National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. vol. 45, no. 3, pp.349-355.

Some URLS
Los Chocoyos ash [ volcano.und.edu ]
Atitlan, Guatemala [ volcano.und.edu ]
Lake Atitlan [ volcano.und.edu ]
Lago de Atitlán [ en.wikipedia.org ]
Essen in "Re: The Evidence of Mu" <[ www.grahamhancock.com ];
C. Leroy Ellenberger - [en.wikipedia.org]


Yours,
David

------------------------------------------


12
Mike Messages / Robert on Collaboration
« on: May 13, 2017, 03:00:45 pm »
Re Robert's TB thread: Catastrophist Geology
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16703

Hi Robert.

Thanks for interest in collaboration.

Except for the last few pages of my thread on Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysms, I copied and reorganized nearly all of the posts on a private forum of my own at http://funday.createaforum.com . They're mixed in with other material from other sources. And they're mostly in the sections called LK1 to LK4. I started writing a paper in section LK1 at http://funday.createaforum.com/1-10/1-71 . So that and the other LK sections and the Sources & Outline section cover most of the discussions and evidence. Also the Mike Messages and XX First Draft sections cover additional or reorganized material.

The CNPS section is the most recent and involves discussing Catastrophism on the CNPS forum in an effort to use the discussion with scientists, pros and laymen, to write a paper for the CNPS Wiki for Alternative Science.

This recent post at my Thunderbolts thread above has my Letter to the Editor of NCGT Journal at http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16025&start=720#p119437 . The letter discusses reasoning that most of the sedimentary strata must have been deposited over a short time span by megatsunamis not many millennia ago.

I favor Charles Chandler's EU model instead of the Thunderbolts team's model. His model is much more thorough and well-reasoned. It's at http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=4741-4752-5653-5660-6031 . He found that stars etc likely form from electrical recombination after ionization-caused charge separation, via implosions that produce mainly current-free electric double layers within stars, planets etc. So stars etc are storage batteries that slowly lose charge, instead of being loads on a circuit as in Thornhill's model, which lacks electric generators for the circuits.

Impacts are bolide collisions, not just electric discharges. But the bolides are highly charged and can cause E.D.'s etc. Tidal forces are also electrical. Both impacts and tidal forces caused megatsunamis, which produced the sedimentary rock strata. The Phanerozoic may have some fossils, e.g. pollen, I think. It may lack most fossils because the sediments may have formed before there was much life on Earth.

If you have counter-evidence for any of this, I'm always open to it and want to know about it.

Are you ready to discuss collaboration?

G'Day

13
CNPS Structured Discussion / CNPS Contacts
« on: May 08, 2017, 10:42:29 am »
Email String
"Akinbo Ojo" <taojo@hotmail.com>
"Bruce Nappi" <bnappi@a3ri.org>
"HARRY RICKER" <kc3mx@yahoo.com>
"ROGER ANDERTON" <r.j.anderton@btinternet.com>
"Don Briddell" <donbriddell@fieldstructure.org>
"Al McDowell" <almcd999@earthlink.net>
"Carl Littmann" <clittmann@verizon.net>
"Carl Reiff" <creiff@elgenwave.com>
"Cameron Rebigsol" <crebigsol@gmail.com>
"Christopher Provatidis" <cprovat@gmail.com>
"David Taylor" <dgtaylor@telusplanet.net>
"David Tombe" <sirius184@yahoo.com>
"Dennis Allen" <allens10@sbcglobal.net>
"Franklin Hu" <franklinhu@yahoo.com>
"Hartwig Thim" <hartwig.thim@jku.at>
"Harvey Fiala" <hefiala1934@gmail.com>
"IMontgomery52Private" <imontgomery52@atlasgas.com.au>
"Ivor Catt" <ivorcatt@gmail.com>
"Jeff Baugher" <jpbaughernps@gmail.com>
"Lou Ellen LaFollette" <rmlaf@comcast.net>
"Matthias Grabiak" <matthias.grabiak@gmail.com>
"Musa D. Abdullahi" <musandaji@gmail.com>
"Nick Percival" <npercival@snet.net>
"Pal Asija" <PalAsija@gmail.com>
"Phil Bouchard" <philippeb8@gmail.com>
"Rajendra Prajapati" <raju2180@gmail.com>
"Robert Bennett" <robert.bennett@rcn.com>
"Roger Munday" <mundayroger@gmail.com>
"Roger Rydin" <rarydin@earthlink.net>
"Slobodan Nedic" <nedic.slbdn@gmail.com>
"X Baunes" <baunes@gmail.com>
"Yuri Keilman" <altsci1@gmail.com>
"A. F. Kracklauer" <af.kracklauer@web.de>
"james carter" <circlon@yahoo.com>
"cowani" <cowani@eircom.net>
"dgsasso@alice.it" <dgsasso@alice.it>
"Kay Scarborough" <dubuissonk@bellsouth.net>
"Jean de Climont" <jeandeclimont@yahoo.ca>
"John Middlemas" <john.middlemas@hotmail.com>
"julie haberle" <juleshaberle@yahoo.com>
"karl thompson" <karl.virgil.thompson@gmail.com>
"Mike ****" <mike.****.retired@gmail.com>
"Abridged Recipients" <npa-relativity@googlegroups.com>
"Osvaldo Domann" <odomann@yahoo.com>
"?e?t???? ?a?a???t?d??" <panaleft@gmail.com>
"Peter Whan" <peter.whan@landisgyr.com>
"Guy at Epola" <rgg@epola.co.uk>
"John Fiala" <servant@wt.net>
"sungenis@aol.com" <sungenis@aol.com>
"Stephen Crothers" <thenarmis@yahoo.com>
"verhey cornelis" <verhey.cornelis@gmail.com>
"relativity@grabiak.net" <relativity@grabiak.net>

NPA Contacts
NPA CLIMATOLOGY, GEOLOGY & EARTH EXPANSION Websites
(from http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=12828 )
CLIMATOLOGY
Arteha, Sergey N. (Dr.) == http://www.antidogma.ru
Beaty, William J. == http://amasci.com
Chukanov, Kiril B. (Prof.) == http://www.chukanovenergy.com
Hayden, Howard C. (Dr.) == http://www.phys.uconn.edu/people/faculty/emeriti/hayden
Intini, Francesca (Dr.) == http://intini@fisica.uniba.it
Johnson, Claes (Prof.) == http://claesjohnsonmathscience.wordpress.com
Jonson, Jan Olof == http://jajo8088@student.su.se
Nichols, Bill D. == http://b.nichols@mchsi.com
Nott, Ronald == http://ron@nottltd.com
Osmaston, Miles F. == http://osmaston.org.uk
Taylor, Helen Look-Yat == http://discoveryofthecentury.webs.com
Tombe, Frederick David == http://sirius184@hotmail.com
Treat, Michael R. (Dr.) == http://TeslaScienceFoundation.org
 
GEOLOGY
Brady, Terry O. == http://teslatech.info
DeWitte, Roland == http://teslaphysics.com/DeWitte/index.htm
Gold, Thomas (Prof.) == http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold
Guy, Bernard (Prof.) == http://emse.fr~bguy
Haberle, Julie Ann == http://whoisyourcreator.com
Khaidarov, Karim Amen (Dr.) == http://bourabai.kz/index.html
Kolasa, Pawel == http://wiser.tv/physics
McCarthy, Dennis J. == http://4threvolt.com
Nahhas, Joe Alexander (Prof.) == http://worldsci.org
Osmaston, Miles F. == http://osmaston.org.uk
Scarborough, Alexander A. == http://alexscarborough.com
Setterfield, Barry John == http://setterfield.org
Taylor, Helen Look-Yat == http://discoveryofthecentury.webs.com
Wachspress, How == http://auditac.com

Big Bang: Akinbo Ojo, Bruce Nappi, Lloyd Kinder, Phil Bouchard
DarkMatter: Akinbo Ojo, Bruce Nappi, Lloyd Kinder, Phil Bouchard
Relativity: Akinbo Ojo, Phil Bouchard, Viraj Fernando
Gravity: Akinbo Ojo, Bruce Nappi, David Tombe, John Fiala, Lloyd Kinder
Radiometric: John Fiala, Lloyd Kinder
taojo@hotmail.com, hefiala1934@gmail.com, virajplf@yahoo.co.uk, sirius184@hotmail.com

Intini, Francesca (Dr.) intini@fisica.uniba.it
Jonson, Jan Olof jajo8088@student.su.se
Nichols, Bill D. b.nichols@mchsi.com
Nott, Ronald ron@nottltd.com
Tombe, Frederick David sirius184@hotmail.com
Treat, Michael R. (Dr.) info@TeslaScienceFoundation.org

b.nichols@mchsi.com
intini@fisica.uniba.it
jajo8088@student.su.se
info@TeslaScienceFoundation.org
ron@nottltd.com

Email String
af.kracklauer@web.de
allens10@sbcglobal.net
almcd999@earthlink.net
altsci1@gmail.com
baunes@gmail.com
bnappi@a3ri.org
circlon@yahoo.com
clittmann@verizon.net
cprovat@gmail.com
crebigsol@gmail.com
creiff@elgenwave.com
dgsasso@alice.it
dgtaylor@telusplanet.net
donbriddell@fieldstructure.org
dubuissonk@bellsouth.net
dynuionel@yahoo.com
franklinhu@yahoo.com
hartwig.thim@jku.at
hefiala1934@gmail.com
imontgomery52@atlasgas.com.au
ivorcatt@gmail.com
jeandeclimont@yahoo.ca
jimcasey@berkeley.edu
john.middlemas@hotmail.com
jpbaughernps@gmail.com
juleshaberle@yahoo.com
karl.virgil.thompson@gmail.com
matthias.grabiak@gmail.com
matthias@grabiak.net
mundayroger@gmail.com
musandaji@gmail.com
nedic.slbdn@gmail.com
npercival@snet.net
odomann@yahoo.com
PalAsija@gmail.com
panaleft@gmail.com
peter.whan@landisgyr.com
philippeb8@gmail.com
r.j.anderton@btinternet.com
raju2180@gmail.com
rarydin@earthlink.net
rgg@epola.co.uk
rmlaf@comcast.net
Robert.bennett@rcn.com
Ron.R.Hatch@outlook.com
servant@wt.net
sirius184@yahoo.com
Sungenis@aol.com
taojo@hotmail.com
thenarmis@yahoo.com
virajplf@yahoo.co.uk

cowani@eircom.net

b.nichols@mchsi.com; intini@fisica.uniba.it; jajo8088@student.su.se; info@TeslaScienceFoundation.org; ron@nottltd.com; af.kracklauer@web.de; allens10@sbcglobal.net; almcd999@earthlink.net; altsci1@gmail.com; baunes@gmail.com; bnappi@a3ri.org; circlon@yahoo.com; clittmann@verizon.net; cprovat@gmail.com; crebigsol@gmail.com; creiff@elgenwave.com; dgsasso@alice.it; dgtaylor@telusplanet.net; donbriddell@fieldstructure.org; dubuissonk@bellsouth.net; dynuionel@yahoo.com; franklinhu@yahoo.com; hartwig.thim@jku.at; hefiala1934@gmail.com; imontgomery52@atlasgas.com.au; ivorcatt@gmail.com; jeandeclimont@yahoo.ca; jimcasey@berkeley.edu; john.middlemas@hotmail.com; jpbaughernps@gmail.com; juleshaberle@yahoo.com; karl.virgil.thompson@gmail.com; matthias.grabiak@gmail.com; matthias@grabiak.net; mundayroger@gmail.com; musandaji@gmail.com; nedic.slbdn@gmail.com; npercival@snet.net; odomann@yahoo.com; PalAsija@gmail.com; panaleft@gmail.com; peter.whan@landisgyr.com; philippeb8@gmail.com; r.j.anderton@btinternet.com; raju2180@gmail.com; rarydin@earthlink.net; rgg@epola.co.uk; rmlaf@comcast.net; Robert.bennett@rcn.com; Ron.R.Hatch@outlook.com; servant@wt.net; sirius184@yahoo.com; Sungenis@aol.com; taojo@hotmail.com; thenarmis@yahoo.com; virajplf@yahoo.co.uk; cowani@eircom.net

14
Family & Friends / Read My Stuff
« on: April 23, 2017, 06:07:02 am »
EDUCATION: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn
Research professor, Peter Gray', blog Freedom to Learn at PsychologyToday.com exposes problems in the education system, such as extreme stress, and better ways to teach and learn.

HEALTH: http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=28796.0
James Sloane was a doctor for 13 years, but got fed up when he wasn't allowed to provide patients real curative nutritional support when dying of cancer and other diseases, so he entered alternative health care. I'm listing his remedies at the link above.

Some of the worst health mistakes are:
_1. low-fat, high carb diet;
(higher natural fat, and low grain & sugar diet is best; sugar & honey are better than artificial sweeteners)
_2. using pain meds, which can cause organ failure etc;
(I'll list alternatives for pain at the link above)
_3. using antacids & other meds for indigestion
(drinking water & good diet are better for indigestion & acid reflux)
_4. getting constipated
(I finally learned that drinking enough good water prevents it; I have to drink almost 2 quarts of water a day; you can add honey etc, but I blend it with about 1.5 bananas per quart)
_5. not getting enough nutrition for adrenal & circulatory system support for stress & circulation
(get it from natural stable vitamin C in Amla Berry powder in capsules or Acerola Berry extract powder etc and B vitamins in Rice Bran)

SCIENCE: http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=23835.0
I post some of the best science & tech news at that link. Some of the articles explain how a lot of conventional science is fraud. So it's best to be skeptical about all science claims. I'm working with others on improving science.
_There's no way to tell yet how old the Earth is.
_3/4 of continental land consists of sedimentary rock over a mile thick.
_Almost all of that rock was formed during a Great Flood over 4,000 years ago.
_At that time there was only one supercontinent without any mountains.
_The flood was caused by tidal attraction to a swarm of asteroids, which caused huge tsunamis.
_The tsunamis washed all of the sedimentary strata onto the supercontinent from the seafloors and the continental shelf over several months time.
_Many people around the world have different stories of a Great Flood.
_A few centuries after the Great Flood the largest asteroid of all hit the supercontinent just north of Madagascar, east Africa.
_The impact broke the supercontinent apart and caused the Americas, Australia, India and Antarctica to slide over the Moho layer to where they are now.
_It also caused the mountain ranges to form.
_Most scientists think the sedimentary rock strata formed slowly over millions of years.
_But sedimentary rock is separated into three kinds: sandstone, mudstone and limestone, each kind being usually many feet thick over large areas.
_How could there have been thousands of years of just one kind of sediment being deposited and then thousands of years of a different kind of sediment?
_The only proven way most sediments can be separated is in flooding over short timespans.
_Radioactive elements are used to date rocks incorrectly, because scientists assume that certain radioactive decay takes millions of years.
_But electrical ionization causes radioactive elements to decay millions of times faster than normal.
_The impact and continental sliding produced a lot of ionization.

POLITICS & ECONOMICS: http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=63.0
I post a lot of articles at that forum a few times each month. Local community self-government is probably the best way to end corruption & provide opportunities for local people.

RELIGION: http://BILIB.webs.com
Everyone will be "saved" but not usually painlessly. Jesus said he's the good shepherd who goes after all lost sheep. The prophecy that Jesus would be born of a virgin almost certainly meant in the sign of the Virgin, which was Virgo, and he was born on Sept. 11, in Virgo. Look it up online. We're saved by following Jesus' example of loving or caring about everyone. That's what will save civilization IMO.

FAMILY TREE: Let me know if you want a copy of the Family Tree online. It needs to be updated, since it's mostly 20 years old.

15
CNPS Structured Discussion / CNPS General Discussion
« on: April 22, 2017, 01:20:31 pm »
Request New Forum Section
(from 9. CNPS Work Groups › CNPS Forum)
(04-19-2017, 09:42 AM (This post was last modified: 04-19-2017, 10:48 AM by Lloyd Kinder.)
I'd like to have a new forum section on Major Unexplained Science Facts & Alternative Models.

As an example, a major unexplained fact is that sedimentary rock strata are mostly separated over large areas into 3 major types, sandstone, claystone & limestone. Mainstream theory claims that the strata were deposited slowly over thousands and millions of years. But that would mean that over large areas only one type of sediment was deposited for many thousands of years, followed by many thousands of years of another type of sediment, etc. A better explanation is that the strata were separated during major flooding over very short time spans. (This would lead to the issue of radiometric dating, but there is a better explanation for that as well.)

Some other brief examples relate to universe expansion, black holes, quasars, neutron stars, science math, gravity, star and planet and galaxy formation etc, magnetic fields, chemistry, biology etc.

My idea is just to list everything briefly, including brief arguments, like with the first example above, and provide links to the best, more thorough discussions elsewhere, preferably in the CNPS Wiki.

Each unexplained fact could be given a name and listed alphabetically as well as by topic hierarchy.

-----

LK Ideas for Organizing a Wiki
(April 22 ca 10:30 AM)
1. Plans to Improve the Scientific Method
2. List Major Fields of Science
3. List Major Science Facts & Flaws for Main CNPS Wiki Topics

1. Plans to Improve the Scientific Method
The Scientific Method involves:
1.1. making accurate observations of reality;
--- [I just happened to notice that reality even includes things like imagination too.]
1.2. making a hypothesis to attempt to explain observations;
1.3. testing the hypothesis by experiment, using accurate and relevant measurements, using logic and, if needed, math as well, and taking relevant, accurate notes of all procedures involved, to determine if the hypothesis is contradicted;
1.4. revising the hypothesis and the experiment, if contradicted [during testing];
1.5. publishing the experiment;
1.6. getting 2 or more unaffiliated parties to replicate a successful experiment;
1.7. publishing the hypothesis as a probable fact and a scientific discovery, if all experiments are successful; and
1.8. using the discovery to increase control over nature for the purpose of improving the conditions of society.
---
Common errors that undermine the Scientific Method are:
1.1. making inaccurate observations of reality;
1.2. making an untestable hypothesis;
1.3. misusing logic or math in the experiment;
1.4. recording false or inaccurate data, or taking inaccurate notes;
1.5. suppressing potentially useful experiments;
1.6. failing to replicate an experiment by unaffiliated parties;
1.7. publishing false or misleading statements about experiments or experimenters; and
1.8. misusing scientific findings for the detriment of society.
---
Human imperfection results in many experiments being done improperly, or reported on inaccurately, or suppressed unfairly. Sociology needs to study these problems and devise means to prevent abuse of science.

2. List Major Fields of Science
Cosmology, Astronomy, Physics, Chemistry, Geology, Catastrophism, Paleontology, Archeology, Mythology, Biology, Neurology, Psychology, Sociology, Parapsychology

3. List Major Science Facts & Flaws
(See Sample Wiki thread.)

-----

Paraphrasing Bruce's Forum/Wiki Ideas
[Prior note to Bruce:] I wanted to start working on a CNPS Wiki Outline, but I can't find anywhere on the CNPS forum, so I started doing it on my private forum at http://funday.createaforum.com/new-board/cnps-wiki-outline .

Here's my rephrasing of your suggestions for the CNPS structured forum, to be followed by my comments.
a. Tell readers the goal is to produce one or more papers and Wikis.
- Each would have multiple identified authors, comments, and possibly subjections.
- So the Wikis and papers would look like conventional academic material.
- Wiki members have a choice to create a Wiki in conventional Wiki format
or do it using my Word template then give it to a Wiki editor
LK Forum Request:
1. Name Major Science Flaws
2. & briefly describe the Flaws
3. & briefly describe the most promising alternative theories or facts
- For #1 have a separate thread for each significant flaw
- Compose a list of flaws
- Ask readers to submit other flaws &/or alternative theories
- Post each submitter’s name with their submissions- Edit & post flaws alongside proposed alternative theories
b. To structure the topic put it into the forum as 3 co-located threads.
ba. "Topic" - discussion (for unedited input, only lightly moderated);
bb. "Topic" - external inputs (for edited questions, challenges, clarifications and other stimulus to stimulate scientific discussion, containing only one or few posts);
bc. "Topic" - summary and coordination (for edited summaries to steer the discussion, with sections like:
what is the current point being discussed;
what are people hung up on;
what needs to be discussed;
what accomplishments have been made so far;
special assignments etc.
- Create an outline of the local discussion & put it in your “coordination” post. - Use Mark’s MIT MAP concepts:
Questions ( ? ),
Ideas ( lightbulb),
pros and cons (thumbs up and down ) etc.
- See the user guide I made for the MAP that shows all his features.
- Add in new heading functions as appropriate:
Lines just as general outline headings: e.g. “Physics – General Principles”;
Subheadings: e.g. “What have others said about this?” or “This is what the discussion has concluded so far on this point”

My comments: I'm willing to experiment with that idea, if you or we can get at least 2 or 3 people involved in trying it out. It seems a bit complicated and it's not clear what the payoff would be. I'm wanting to work on listing major science flaws and maybe asking others to contribute to the list, because the payoff would seem to be correcting major flaws and making them well-known and contributing to science progress, assuming a popular website can be developed.

Aether Lattice Holes Theory
LST: I started reading your LST yesterday & it seems a little promising. I don't understand how dislocations would have mass etc, but I'm open-minded. So far, LST doesn't seem likely to explain how atoms could spin. I favor the idea that electrons and neutrons are connected to protons and the whole atom has to be balanced in order to spin. And unbalanced atoms fly apart, which is radioactivity. I haven't read enough to see if you covered radioactivity etc.

DEMOCRACY:
A day or two ago I mentioned some of my work with Sociocracy, CNVC etc. Then synchronicity hit. One of the members of the group chat in 2006 from Sri Lanka emailed me last night saying he uses NVC in his social work and he wants to learn more by taking a class in Denmark in June. He said he's working with leaders of his country to try to prevent more war there, after the 25 year war that ended a few years ago. He said he lost many friends and relatives in the war. Your democracy proposal might be something they could benefit a lot from. It seems like it would work well, but have you considered how to persuade anyone to adopt it in the first place? Most people who run for public office seem to be mainly interested in how they can benefit just themselves and seldom seem much concerned about improving conditions for the public. CELDF seems to have some experience with the persuasion part by actually having gotten a number of communities to adopt some of their suggestions for local ordinances. I think CELDF also is trying to work with other countries too, so I guess I should contact them about my Sri Lanka friend. Should I also give him suggestions from you?

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