MEGASEQUENCES
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https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=180#p1993__STRATA FORMATION
7. The geologic column is said to be the complete sedimentary rock record, from the basement granite rock to the most recent strata at the top.
7a. The complete geologic column is said to exist in 24 large basins worldwide on the continents.
7b. Basins are theorized to have formed from large meteor impacts. The deepest basin is possibly at the Caspian Sea, which is over 20 km deep, filled with sedimentary rock strata. Other basins are also fairly deep.
8. Sedimentary rock strata cover about 75% of the continents, I think, and average about a mile thick. Some limestone, such as along the Gulf of Mexico, is 7 km or so thick, like in many basins as well.
9. The geologic column consists of 6 megasequences, each of which appear to have been deposited by major flooding during "transgression" (rising water) and sometimes partially removed during "regression" (falling flood water). The Canadian shield and other locations appear to be where regression removed all of the sediment.
9a. The duration between megasequences appears to have been brief, because very little rain erosion appears to have occurred between their depositions.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=180#p2040__GLOBAL ROCK STRATA MEGASEQUENCES
_Creationists support megasequences in a modified geologic column. Would it be satisfactory to refer to it as the Flood Geologic Column? You can find megasequences in several articles at
https://creation.com/search?q=megasequenceHere are some samples.
__JOURNAL OF CREATION 29(2) 2015 || OVERVIEWS
Can ‘megasequences’ help define biblical geologic history?
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j29_2/j29_2_16-25.pdf[This says Creationist geologists, Austin, Wise and Snelling first considered the idea of Sloss unconformity-bound sequences as Great Flood megasequences. Then here's a quote re Clarey et al, which is followed by discussion and conclusion, which is similar to your caution, I think. Ed.]
_p.29:
Young-earth creationist Clarey reported on the results of his analyses of transcontinental Sloss stratigraphic sequences, which he also defines as ‘megasequences’:
_“Using data from over 500 stratigraphic columns, I examined megasequences across North America to document the sedimentary evidence for the Flood’s catastrophe. At each site, the megasequence boundaries were identified, along with the thicknesses and extent of individual rock types.”51
_A new seventh megasequence was identified by Clarey at the Midcontinent Rift of North America:
_“Preliminary results demonstrate the presence of a seventh megasequence below the six common fossil-bearing megasequences. It lies just below the Sauk Megasequence in what secularists [i.e. naturalists] call the late Precambrian or Proterozoic Era. However, this newly delineated pre-Sauk sequence may be instrumental in documenting the onset of the Flood.
_“In part, the pre-Sauk megasequence was created by a tremendous outpouring of basaltic lava that split open central North America and caused the Midcontinent Rift.
__The Importance of Unconformity-Bounded Sequences in Flood Stratigraphy (1995)
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j09_2/j09_2_223-243.pdf... In conclusion, it is suggested that megasequences (and their bounding unconformities) can indicate globally-controlled tectonic (including volcanic), tidal, eustatic and hydraulic activity, which would have controlled sedimentation during the Flood. Unconformities are understood to be erosive boundaries created by the combination of tectonic movements, tidal effects, eustasy and hydraulic action. As explained earlier, unconformities do have time significance, as they mark the occurrence of an event in real time which interrupted the otherwise continuous deposition of sediments during the Flood. The determination of MSQs in a region gives the stratigraphic framework of the depositional history of the Genesis Flood for that region. From the correlation of MSQs, it may be possible to construct a Flood stratigraphic framework in which to interpret the depositional history of the Genesis Flood for the entire earth. As Table 10 shows, the example correlation done suggests that five of the inter-regional unconformities defined in each region are possibly world-wide in extent, indicating the possibility that five major tectonic/ eustatic (or other) events were globally-controlled. It is suggested that this concept be adopted for interpreting Flood geology for several reasons, including the fact that MSQs are defined by physical boundaries (unconformities), and are thus lithostratigraphic (as opposed to time stratigraphic [evolutionary]). Each sequence refers to a cluster of strata of varying but continuous (relative) age, that is, continuous deposition (within the sequence/depocentre). It is suggested that MSQs represent more coherent subdivisions of geologic time within a single tectonic domain during the Flood, and should be utilised to replace the presently used uniformitarian geologic time system for analysis of the depositional history of the Genesis Flood.
[table 10 shows which strata in each several parts of the globe appear to belong in which global megasequence, but prior tables show details.]
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https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=540#p5172__CAUSE OF THE GREAT FLOOD
_I assume Mike thinks the flood was caused by ocean impacts, but I don't think those would have been enough. Baumgardner's model has an elliptically orbiting body (like the Moon?) causing tidal waves about monthly at perigee. The reason his model seems partly correct is that on the continents there are 5 or 6 megasequences of conforming rock strata with unconformities between each megasequence, so it looks like there was something causing flooding regularly for several months. I mean at about monthly intervals something caused tidal waves carrying & depositing sediments for some days, then they stopped for a while, then restarted again and the cycle repeated 5 or 6 times during the entire Flood. That sounds like something an elliptically orbiting body would cause.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=540#p5198__MAPS OF SEDIMENTARY ROCK STRATA MEGASEQUENCES: (CHRONOMETER?)
_In other words, these maps may help determine the timeline for major catastrophic events. I was just looking over the following online paper and made some interesting observations.
__Use of Sedimentary Megasequences to Re-create Pre-Flood Geography
https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1036&context=icc_proceedings_p359 This shows an interesting map of Pangaea, much of it under shallow seas. The paper only deals with the Americas and Africa.
_p363 The Zuni megasequence (the one before the Cenozoic) covers the Gulf of Mexico and offshore from west & southeast Africa
_p364 It covers offshore from east South America
_p366 The Tejas megasequence (from Cenozoic to now) covers the Gulf of Mexico and offshore from east North America
_p367 It covers similar to p363, but also into the Mediterranean Sea and the Red Sea
_p368 It covers similar to p364, and also the southern part of the Gulf of Mexico and into the Caribbean Sea
_The first four megasequences, before Zuni and Tejas, do not cover the Gulf of Mexico or offshore areas in the Atlantic etc.
_Floods likely deposited each megasequence. The Great Flood likely deposited one or more of the lower megasequences, probably the first 3 or 4. The Shock Dynamics asteroid strike that broke up Pangaea likely caused one or more megasequences, apparently the last 2, because they are the only ones that cover the Gulf of Mexico and parts of the Atlantic, which didn't open up until Pangaea broke apart. The Younger Dryas impact event may have caused one or more megasequences as well, but that's less certain.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=540#p5219PS, I discussed MAPS OF SEDIMENTARY ROCK STRATA MEGASEQUENCES recently in this post:
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&p=5219#p5198It shows that the Zuni megasequence is the bottom one in the Gulf of Mexico. Zuni was apparently the last and uppermost megasequence deposited by the Great Flood. Since the Gulf likely formed during the breakup of Pangaea, which was after the Great Flood, there shouldn't be Zuni sediment in the Gulf, UNLESS.... Mike told me that the Zuni sediment likely got there by flood erosion during the breakup, or from coastal slumping.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=540#p5269__WHY RETHINK CARDONA'S TIMELINE
__OBJECTIVE, NON-CREATIONIST ARGUMENTS FOR REDUCING THE AGES OF THE GEOLOGIC COLUMN
__MEGASEQUENCES.
_There are remnants of 6 megasequences of rock strata worldwide.
_The strata within each megasequence are all conforming.
_The top of each megasequence is leveled flat by sheet erosion, but very little channeled erosion followed before the next megasequence was deposited.
_Therefore, very little time must have passed between each pair of megasequence depositions.
(Since Mike says the Tejas came hundreds of years after the Zuni, is there much erosion between them?)
__CONCLUSION: THERE WAS A GREAT FLOOD OR FLOODS.
_The sedimentary rock strata were apparently deposited by one or more Great Floods.
_The first five megasequences must have been deposited during a Flood of the Pangaea supercontinent, which was all lowland.
_The last megasequence must have been deposited when the supercontinent broke apart, such as by an asteroid impact.
_Dinosaur fossils are found in the earlier megasequence, while large mammal fossils are found in the last one.
... Since the Younger Dryas sediments are at the top of the geologic column, the Great Flood that deposited most of the megasequences must have occurred before the Younger Dryas event.
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https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=600#p6134SEMIGLOBAL SEDIMENTARY ROCK MEGASEQUENCES
_I discussed this quite a bit on page 37 of this thread at
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=540#p5172_My first headlines there are PANGAEA BROKE UP AFTER, NOT DURING(?), THE GREAT FLOOD
and HERE IS A SUMMARY OF THE NEWGEOLOGY EARTH HISTORY TIMELINE (Click the link to see it).
_Almost halfway down the page is this highlighted title: Use of Sedimentary Megasequences to Re-create Pre-Flood Geography which has this link:
https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1036&context=icc_proceedings_From that I made a collection of images at
https://ibb.co/qFsf0ww which I copied to my private board at
https://futureschool.boards.net/post/595/thread__SEDIMENTARY ROCK FORMATION.
_That collection of images includes 4 graphs combined into 1, showing the amount of sediment in each megasequence in North and South America and in Africa. The numbers on the left indicate how many cubic kilometers of sediment are in each megasequence. The graph goes as high as 60 million. The Zuni megasequence in Africa has nearly that much sediment.
_The next 12 images below the graph/s show the coverage and locations of each megasequence on each of the 3 continents. Each tsunami cycle started with rising sea level and ended with falling sea level. The rising sea level deposited sediment and falling sea level washed away the higher altitude sediments down to lower altitudes. The white areas are where the sediments were washed away from the highlands.
_Mike Fischer suggested that the sediments came mostly from the continental shelves around the supercontinent, Pangaea.
__HUDSON BAY FORMED BEFORE THE FLOOD.
_The first megasequence combination filled in the Hudson Bay area in Canada and north of there, but later megasequences didn't add anything to it. It's apparent that there was a large impact crater before the Great Flood, which the first megasequence filled in.
__GULF OF MEXICO FORMED DURING OR AFTER THE FLOOD.
_The first megasequence combination and the Absaroka megasequence did not fill in the Gulf of Mexico. But the last two megasequences did fill it in, as you can see. This seems to be good evidence that the Gulf of Mexico formed during or after the Great Flood. Mike Fischer thinks the Zuni megasequence was the last one deposited during the Great Flood and the Tejas megasequence was deposited 500 years later during the Pangaea breakup. But it seems to me that the Zuni and Tejas both must have deposited during the later Flood.
__PANGAEA WAS 2 LARGE ISLANDS?
_The last image shows the 3 continents together along with most of the rest of the continents as part of the former supercontinent, Pangaea. You can see that there appear to have been large inland seas on the supercontinent which divided it into 2 large islands. If it's correct, it suggests that flora and fauna, including dinosaurs, would likely have been different on the two Islands, since the seas seem to be too wide to cross.
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https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=615#p6164__WAS ZUNI OR TEJAS MEGASEQUENCE LONG AFTER THE GREAT FLOOD?
_To get an idea if either one was likely long after the Flood, I made a note to See if fossils changed much from Zuni to Tejas megasequences. They should have changed a lot if they were 500 years apart. Also see if Absaroka to Zuni changed much. Maybe Zuni and Tejas both were long after the Flood.
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https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=660#p6840__ALMOST NO EROSION BETWEEN MEGASEQUENCES
_Last year it occurred to me that the megasequences of sedimentary strata must have been deposited in a short period of time if there is little or no channeled erosion evident between them. I haven't given that enough thought though. If the Great Flood deposited the bottom 4 or 5 megasequences (Zuni being number 5) and if it occurred several centuries before the Younger Dryas event, and if the Younger Dryas event included a major flood that deposited the final megasequence/s (Tejas being number 6 and last), there should have been a lot of erosion of channels or ditches in the Zuni. See the following maps.
__SEDIMENTARY ROCK STRATA MEGASEQUENCES MAPS OF THE AMERICAS & AFRICA
https://ibb.co/ZcmCxPH_In the top row of maps there of North America, the first two show no megasequences in the Gulf of Mexico. That seems to be because the Gulf had not yet formed because Pangaea was not yet hit by the asteroid that broke it up and opened up the Gulf and the Atlantic Ocean and some of the Indian Ocean.
_Since the Zuni and Tejas strata are both in the Gulf, the Gulf must have opened up at that point, so the asteroid must have hit Pangaea just before that. The next two rows of maps of South America and Africa show a similar pattern. It's mostly only Zuni and Tejas sediments that flowed into the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic Ocean from South America and into the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic and Indian Oceans from Africa.
_Another problem is that it looks like the Zuni and Tejas sediments also underlie the area of the Great Pyramid along the Nile in Egypt. It looks like maybe a kilometer or more of those sediments. That would mean that the Great Pyramid would have been built on top of all that afterwards.
_So it seems that Mike Fischer must have been wrong about the Pangaea breakup having occurred centuries after the Great Flood. Maybe there was only one Great Flood at the time of the Younger Dryas. But I had previously concluded that Tiahuanaco was likely built soon after the Great Flood before Pangaea broke up and caused Tiahuanaco to be raised up from sea level to its present height of 12 thousand feet.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=660#p6841__RETHINKING OUT LOUD
_Earth History is a huge puzzle. By rearranging the puzzle pieces I hope to find which ones fit together. Sometimes two or more pieces are so similar that they seem to fit when they really don't. The situation sometimes gets mind-boggling, but then I start working on a different part of the puzzle for a while, & sometimes the boggling decreases. Si?
__GREAT FLOOD DEPOSITED MEGASEQUENCES
_Mseq means megasequence (of sedimentary rock strata).
_1. There are 6 or 7 Mseq's (from bottom to top): PreSauk(?), Sauk, Tippe., Kas., Absar., Zuni, Tejas
_Are there erosion channels (ditches) evident in the top surface of any mseq?
__PROBABLY NOT (as I said in my previous post)
_2. If not, then all of the mseq's were likely deposited in close succession during the Great Flood.
_3. Since Zuni & Tejas are about the only mseq's in
the Gulf of Mexico, the Mediterranean Sea & the edges of the Atlantic & Indian Oceans,
and since those bodies of water likely formed as Pangaea broke up from a major impact,
it's likely that Pangaea broke up before those last two mseq's were deposited
(contrary to what I've been thinking for the past year nearly).
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=660#p6859__WHICH STRATA BELONG TO WHICH MEGASEQUENCE
_Can ‘megasequences’ help define biblical geologic history?
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j29_2/j29_2_16-25.pdf_The 6 mseq's are: 1) Sauk, 2) Tippecanoe, 3) Kaskaskia, 4) Absaroka, 5) Zuni, and 6) Tejas.
_According to this article, the following conventionally named strata occurred approximately within each mseq.
1) Sauk: +Cambrian+
2) Tippecanoe: -Ordovician +Silurian+
3) Kaskaskia: -Devonian +Mississippian
4) Absaroka: Pennsylvanian +Permian +Triassic+
5) Zuni: -Jurassic +Cretaceous+
6) Tejas: -Tertiary+
__CREATIONIST ARTICLE HAS POSSIBLE EVIDENCE THAT PANGAEA BROKE UP CENTURIES AFTER THE GREAT FLOOD
_Mike Fischer says that, so I'm posting most of the latter part of the article here. Subtitles in brackets are mine.
__Use of Sedimentary Megasequences to Re-create Pre-Flood Geography (2018)
https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1036&context=icc_proceedings...
__Upland Areas
__[MSEQ's ARE THICKEST NEAR EDGES OF CONTINENTS]
_Our study found that all megasequences thinned toward the crystalline shield areas on all three continents.
_The sedimentary units do not merely show evidence of erosion and truncation, but become thinner in the direction of the shields,
implying they were deposited on the flanks of extensive uplands.
[See Figure 10.]
_Figure 14 shows four stratigraphic profiles across the northern USA.
_All show dramatic thinning of the megasequences from south to north toward the shield, in support of this interpretation.
__[ZUNI MSEQ WAS THE HIGH WATER MARK OF THE FLOOD]
_The top of the Zuni megasequence (fifth megasequence) seems to represent the highest water level of the Flood
as water washed over the top of the pre-Flood high hills and uplands, giving the most globally extensive deposition of any megasequence (Figs. 11, 12, 13).
_Recall, the Zuni megasequence also has the maximum volume of sediment deposited globally (Fig. 7).
_This deposit likely represents the Day 150 high water point of the Flood.
_Many of these interpreted upland areas are completely devoid of any sedimentary rock
as post-Flood erosion has stripped the little amount of possible Zuni sediment that may have been deposited.
_According to Genesis 7:20, the highest hills were only flooded by a modest amount of water,
likely leaving little room for thick sedimentary deposits as the Flood waters receded.
_However, there are a few Zuni remnants in Hudson Bay and Michigan and Illinois in North America
that indicate the highest water level was achieved at this point in the Flood (Fig. 11).
_Humphreys (2014, p. 57) in his translation of Genesis 6:7 and Genesis 7:23 suggests the term ‘wiped off”
to explain this stripping of the land surface right down to the crust: ....
_“Thus He wiped off every living thing that was upon the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky,
and they were wiped off from the earth…” (emphasis in original). ...
_“Taking these verses straightforwardly means the waters swept mud, plants, the animals completely off the formerly dry land,
the pre-Flood continental surface” (Humphreys 2014, p. 57).
_And this is exactly what we see across large portions of the continents.
_The pre-Flood uplands include the major shield areas of Canada, Greenland, Brazil and Central and Western Africa.
_When placed back together in a Pangaea-like configuration, the upland areas match up across continents and become quite substantial (Fig 8 ).
__[TEJAS IS ERODED DEPOSITS FROM ZUNI; COAL, MAMMALS, HUMANS]
_The Tejas megasequence rocks likely represent material washed off the highest upland areas of the pre-Flood world
and ‘backwashed’ onto the Zuni as the Flood waters began to recede (Day 150+) (Figs. 15, 16, 17).
_Fossils in the Tejas megasequence also contain increasingly more angiosperms and mammal fossils compared to the Zuni deposits,
indicative of more upland terrains.
_These areas were apparently wiped free of all life, removing even the pre-Flood soil and any rock layers that might have existed there.
_Deposits in the Tejas include the thickest and most extensive coal seams in the world (Clarey 2017a).
[See Figure 13.]
_These huge mats of transported trees, almost exclusively non-lycopods, likely represented plants swept off the uplands.
_[] the Flood, apparently ‘wiped off’ these areas of highest elevation, where most of the large mammals, flowering plants and possibly humans may have existed,
spreading their remains in sedimentary layers on top of the earlier buried dinosaurs in rocks now identified as Cenozoic strata.
__[TEJAS DEPOSITIONAL DIFFERENCES]
_Animals were likely buried closer to their place of origin as the Flood waters were rising
(from the Sauk through the Zuni megasequences) until Day 150 was reached.
_The water and sediment engulf[ed] them nearly in situ as the water level increased.
_Advancing and rising Flood water probably buried marine animals in shallow seas in the first three megasequences
and the dinosaurs and other and wetland animals were later buried near their lowland locations (with some obvious transport).
_Hence, [this is] a possible reason for the ‘straddling’ of the dinosaur quarries across this so-called ‘peninsula’ of lowlands
that extended through the central USA (Clarey 2015).
_But the Tejas depositional pattern appears to have been different.
_It was ... apparently [the] result of a reversal in flow direction as
- began to remove the waters from off the continents (post-Day 150).
_This not only transported the flora and fauna from off of the highest hills (uplands),
it spread those deposits more radially toward the continental margins.
_Animals and plants that lived in areas that are now exposed crystalline rock (the Precambrian shields),
were transported great distances and deposited on top of the Zuni strata and sometimes older exposed strata too.
__[FLOOD WATER FLOW NORTHWARD]
_Is there any evidence of a reversal of water flow direction at the Zuni/Tejas boundary as suggested by this hypothesis? The answer is yes.
[See Figures 14, 15, 16, 17.]
_Although Chadwick’s (2001) current direction data is less conclusive across the Zuni/Tejas (K-Pg) boundary (Clarey 2017b),
research by Blum and Pecha (2014) using detrital zircons did show a dramatic shift in the direction of drainage from the Cretaceous
(uppermost Zuni) to the Paleocene (lowermost Tejas) across North America.
_These authors found that during deposition of the Cretaceous (Zuni Sequence),
the drainage pattern was dominantly to the north and northwest across much of the USA.
_Drainage was to the Boreal Sea near present-day Alberta and Saskatchewan.
_They also determined that very little area was draining to the Gulf of Mexico (GOM) during this time.
__[TEJAS WATER FLOW SOUTHWARD]
_In contrast, they determined that the Paleocene drainage shifted dramatically from that of the Cretaceous,
resulting in much of the USA draining southward to the GOM (Blum and Pecha 2014).
_As noted on their map, this was not a single river like the modern Mississippi River, but a series of rivers,
effectively behaving more like sheet wash, draining into the GOM all at once.
[COMMENT: Cardona stated in Thoth that some Native Americans said the Flood came from the north. The Tejas southward flood flow sounds like Younger Dryas flooding, instead of the Great Flood. So maybe Mike is right, that the Tejas came some centuries later.]
_This shift in drainage coincides nicely with the end of the Zuni megaequence and the onset of the Tejas megaequence.
_Blum and Pecha (2014) believe this change in drainage occurred
because of the high flooding levels of the North American continent during the Upper Cretaceous, known as the Cretaceous Interior Seaway.
_They claim that the withdrawal of the flood waters during the uppermost Cretaceous and earliest Paleocene
caused significant reorganization in the drainage pattern and a reverse in flow toward the GOM.
_Clarey and Parkes (2016) used this documented shift in drainage at the Zuni/Tejas boundary
to explain the Whopper Sand in the deep-water of the Gulf of Mexico (Fig. 18).
_Since 2001, with the drilling of the BAHA-2 oil well,
billions of barrels of oil have been discovered in the Paleocene-Eocene Wilcox-equivalent “Whopper Sand” (Higgs 2009).
_This well reportedly encountered 335 m (1100 feet) of sand in the Lower Wilcox
in over 2135 m (7000 feet) of water within the Perdido Fold Belt of Alaminos Canyon.
_In Keathley Canyon the Sardinia-1 well encountered over 366 m (1200 feet) of sand and in Walker Ridge,
the Jack-2 well and Chinook and Cascade-2 wells reached similarly thick Lower Wilcox sands approaching 580 m (1900 feet) thick (Trammel 2006).
_Average porosity in the whopper sand is 18% and permeabilities range from 10-30 md (Trammel 2006).
_Up to 15 billion barrels have been discovered in this trend since 2001.
_What makes the Whopper Sand unusual is its location in deep water, nearly 300 km from the Lower Wilcox shelf margin,
and far from any conventional sand source (Higgs 2009).
[See Figure 18.]
_Clarey and Parkes (2016) believe the Whopper Sand may be a consequence of this rapid drainage shift at the Zuni/Tejas boundary,
when water suddenly began to drain off the North American continent (Interior Seaway)
into the GOM, permanently reversing the earlier direction of flow.
_This shift is marked by the sudden change in deposition from the uppermost Zuni layer (the Lower Paleocene Midway Shale)
to the lowermost Tejas (PaleoceneEocene Whopper Sand).
_In a Flood model, this would coincide with the change in water direction described for Day 150+ of the Flood.
__[TEJAS SEA LEVEL DROP]
_Initial drainage rates in the Paleocene, coinciding with a sudden drop in sea level at the onset of the Tejas,
were likely high volume and highly energetic, providing a possible mechanism to transport the thick Whopper Sand into deep-water.
_Over time, the drainage volume lessened, lowering the energy available for transport, until the present-day pattern developed.
_We now observe small flows compared to what was likely happening during the initial draining of the vast North American platform at the start of the Tejas.
__[LACK OF HUMAN FOSSILS]
_This hypothesis may also help explain the lack of human fossils in the rock record.
_Most pre-Flood humans likely survived until close to Day 150 and were probably clinging to the areas of highest ground.
_As the water levels crested on Day 150, humans were ‘wiped off,’ spreading their dead bodies in all directions from a zone of concentration,
radially transporting them great distances.
_This process would have spread their remains and lessened the likelihood of finding a concentration of human fossils.
_And, if they were not buried deep enough in sediment, they would not be preserved as fossils either.
_Erosion after the Flood would affect the highest strata the most and any humans buried in the uppermost few meters as a consequence.
__[MASSIVE TEJAS IN SOUTH AMERICA & MOUNTAIN RANGES UPLIFT]
_As mentioned earlier, South America has a greater volume of Tejas than Zuni (Fig. 7).
_Why so much Tejas in South America?
_A lot is probably due to the contribution of Central America which formed mostly in the Cenozoic (Tejas).
_And it appears the tectonics of both North and South America played a major role in the volume deposited during the Tejas.
_The higher volume of Tejas sediment on both continents is partly caused
by the uplift of Tejas-age (Cenozoic) mountain ranges (the Rocky Mountains and Andes Mountains) that run the length of the respective continents.
_These major mountain ranges shed tremendous amounts of sediment during their uplift,
creating great volumes of Tejas sedimentary rock east of the mountain ranges.
_And combining that with the increased amount of sediment caused by the formation of Central America,
and we get a greater volume of Tejas deposition for South America.
_Africa, in contrast, has no significant, Tejas-age (Cenozoic) mountain ranges
running the length of the continent to provide additional volumes of Tejas sediment.
__[TEJAS GAPS IN MOUNTAIN RANGES]
_Finally, note that the Tejas isopach maps of North America and South America show cut-out areas
where no Tejas exists in the regions of the Rocky Mountains and the Andes Mountains (Figs. 15, 17).
_Erosion has exposed the underlying ... basement rocks in these location(s) due to Cenozoic uplift.
_This in effect, separated the various sedimentary basins, particularly in North America.
_The coarseness of the stratigraphic column spacing prevented us from showing every isolated basin and further details,
and as a result, we acknowledge that there are likely some minor errors in the map due to averaging between the columns.
_However, we feel the cut-out areas on the maps adequately portray the basement exposures and the areas where no Tejas exists.
_Any averaging errors are extremely minor compared to the continental scale of the maps and the overall totals for the stratigraphic data.
__[COMMENT: I copied most of the maps from the article at
https://ibb.co/ZcmCxPH . There you can compare the Zuni to the Tejas deposition etc. I hope to do some analysis on the maps and maybe Mike will help.]
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=660#p6860__QUESTIONS FOR MIKE & OTHERS
__MEGASEQUENCE MAPS
_Go to the paper, Use of Sedimentary Megasequences to Re-create Pre-Flood Geography, at this link 5 times in 5 tabs.
https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1036&context=icc_proceedings__NORTH AMERICA
1. On the first tab (of your computer) scroll to page 354 to show the first two mseq's (Sauk & Tippecanoe).
2. On the second tab scroll to page 354 also, but to show the third mseq (Kaskaskia).
3. On the third tab scroll to page 363 to show the next two mseq's (Absaroka & Zuni).
4. On the fourth tab scroll to page 366 to show the last mseq (Tejas).
Zoom in or out on each tab to fill the screen with the map.
Green, yellow & red colors indicate over 7 km deep sedimentary strata.
Light blue indicates 3-6 km deep sedimentary strata.
Dark blue indicates under 3 km deep sedimentary strata.
__WHEN IMPACT BASINS FORMED
1. Open the first tab and notice that the Sauk entered 3 deep impact basins at N. Canada, Nova Scotia & N. Carolina, and shallower ones in Nevada, Alberta etc.
The Tippecanoe strata entered a very deep impact basin in W. Alaska & a deep one in N. Greenland.
2. At the second tab the Kaskaskia strata entered one deep impact basin off E. Greenland plus other shallower ones around the continent.
3. At the third tab the Absaroka strata entered a deep impact basin in Arkansas & one in Oregon etc.
The Zuni strata then entered a deep impact basin in SW Alaska, W. Greenland, east & west of Florida & other places.
4. At the fourth tab the Tejas strata entered deep impact basins at the Aleutian Islands of Alaska, W. Washington & W. Oregon, and the western Gulf of Mexico etc.
__WHEN THE ATLANTIC FORMED
1,2. There's little or no indication that strata formed off of the N. American continent in the Atlantic Ocean or the Gulf of Mexico during the first 3 mseq's
(Sauk, Tippecanoe, Kaskaskia).
3. The Absaroka strata did not enter any of the Gulf of Mexico. They did settle off the East coast from Virginia to Newfoundland, but maybe not beyond the continental shelf.
**The Zuni strata did enter the Gulf of Mexico & it also settled on the eastern continental shelf or maybe into the Atlantic.
4. The Tejas strata also entered the Gulf of Mexico & also settled on the shelf etc.
__QUESTION #1. Since the Zuni strata entered the Gulf, doesn't that mean the Gulf formed at that time from the Shock Dynamics impact?
__AFRICA
1. Reset the first tab scrolling to page 355 to show the first two mseq's (Sauk & Tippecanoe).
2. On the second tab scroll to page 355 also, but to show the third mseq (Kaskaskia).
3. On the third tab scroll to the bottom of page 363 to show the next two mseq's (Absaroka & Zuni).
4. On the fourth tab scroll to page 367 to show the last mseq (Tejas).
Zoom in or out on each tab to fill the screen with the map.
__WHEN IMPACT BASINS FORMED
1,2. No impact basins over 4 km deep formed before the first 3 mseq's.
3. 2 or 3 deep impact basins were entered by the Absaroka mseq around SE Africa.
The Zuni strata entered 3 deep impact basins along the west coast of Africa, one around Lake Chad and one at the north coast of Algeria.
4. The Tejas strata entered a deep impact basin on the coast of Cameroon and another on the north coast of Egypt.
__WHEN THE ATLANTIC & INDIAN OCEANS FORMED
1,2. No strata of the first 3 mseq's entered the ocean basins.
3. **Some Absaroka strata entered the Indian Ocean by E. Africa & maybe some entered the Atlantic by the NW coast.
**Some Zuni strata entered the eastern Mediterranean, a sliver of the Red Sea, the Indian Ocean off the SE coast & the Atlantic along the entire west coast.
4. The Tejas strata entered much of the Mediterranean, the Red Sea, & both oceans.
__QUESTION #2. **In order for the Absaroka and Zuni strata to enter the Indian & Atlantic Oceans & the Mediterranean & Red Seas, wouldn't the Shock Dynamics impact have had to occur at that time?
__HIGHLIGHTS OF PREVIOUS POST
In my last forum post at
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&p=6859#p6859 I copied the last part of the Megasequences paper discussed above. Here are some highlights from that post.
__CHANGE IN FLOOD WATER FLOW DIRECTIONS
_Is there any evidence of a reversal of water flow direction at the Zuni/Tejas boundary as suggested by this hypothesis? The answer is yes.
_These authors found that during deposition of the Cretaceous (Zuni Sequence),
the drainage pattern was dominantly to the north and northwest across much of the USA.
_Drainage was to the Boreal Sea near present-day Alberta and Saskatchewan.
_They also determined that very little area was draining to the Gulf of Mexico (GOM) during this time.
_In contrast, they determined that the Paleocene drainage shifted dramatically from that of the Cretaceous,
resulting in much of the USA draining southward to the GOM [Gulf of Mexico]....
__QUESTION #3. Is it likely that the different directions of water flow indicate two different Floods, the northward flow of the Great Flood and the southern flow of the Younger Dryas Flood?
__TEJAS STRATA
_The Tejas megasequence rocks likely represent material washed off the highest upland areas of the pre-Flood world
and ‘backwashed’ onto the Zuni as the Flood waters began to recede
_Fossils in the Tejas megasequence also contain increasingly more angiosperms and mammal fossils compared to the Zuni deposits,
indicative of more upland terrains.
_These areas were apparently wiped free of all life, removing even the pre-Flood soil and any [sedimentary?] rock layers that might have existed there.
_The higher volume of Tejas sediment on both continents [N. & S. America] is partly caused
by the uplift of Tejas-age (Cenozoic) mountain ranges (the Rocky Mountains and Andes Mountains) that run the length of the respective continents.
_These major mountain ranges shed tremendous amounts of sediment during their uplift,
creating great volumes of Tejas sedimentary rock east of the mountain ranges.
_And combining that with the increased amount of sediment caused by the formation of Central America,
and we get a greater volume of Tejas deposition for South America.
__QUESTION #4. If the two directions of water flow were due to two different Floods centuries apart, would the strata of the first Flood have been still soft enough to erode off the newly formed mountain ranges during the second Flood?
__QUESTION #5. See References below. Since the Great Pyramid of Egypt seems to have been built on top of the Tejas megasequence (from p.367 above), if the Tejas was deposited by the YD Flood, which Flood was there that flooded the originally 481 foot high pyramid to the 240-foot level?
__(REFERENCES a & b.
a. Great Pyramid of Giza
https://sacredsites.com/africa/egypt/the_great_pyramid_of_giza.htmlStill further evidence that the dynastic Egyptians did not construct the Great Pyramid of Giza may be found in sediments surrounding the base of the monument, in legends regarding watermarks on the stones halfway up its sides, and in salt incrustations found within. Silt sediments rising to fourteen feet around the base of the pyramid contain many seashells and fossils that have been radiocarbon-dated to be nearly twelve thousand years old. These sediments could have been deposited in such great quantities only by major sea flooding....
b. Pyramids and Temples in Egypt
https://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sunrise/52-02-3/eg-vonk.htmLegends and records ... speak of the fact that, before the Arabs removed the Pyramid's outer casing stones, one could see water marks on the stones halfway up the Pyramid's height, in about the 240-foot level, which would be 400 feet above the present Nile level. — Joseph Jochmans, "How Old Are the Pyramids?")
__P.S. PANGAEA BREAKUP
_In the Conclusions part of the Megasequences paper above is this paragraph.
"The relative timing of the break-up of Pangaea can also be inferred from the megasequence data. Deposits on the offshore shelf regions indicate Africa and North America ... (Absaroka megasequence) ... split before ... the breakup of Africa and South America (Zuni megasequence). These data also indicate that Greenland and the Saudi Arabian peninsula did not fully separate from their respective continents until the deposition of the Zuni and Tejas megasequences, respectively, later in the Flood."
__QUESTION #6. This contradicts the Shock Dynamics model. Did they read the data wrong?
46 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=675#p7193__TRANSCRIPT OF A NOAH'S FLOOD VIDEO
I discussed this and another video in my previous post. The following transcript is nearly complete. I only left out some of the religious discussion. I added headlines in caps to help navigate for focusing on topics of interest. I plan to compare this with my findings from other sources and add comments in a later post.
__Noah's Flood and Catastrophic Plate Tectonics (from Pangea to Today)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=zd5-dHxOQhg&t=1013s_SEDIMENTARY ROCK MAP. Over 1,800 oilwell boreholes from four continents have all been compiled and mapped. The newly emerging map tracks the thickness and extent of each rock type as they were laid down by the Flood.
_MEGASEQUENCES. This research reveals the same six megasequences of sedimentary rock deposits across multiple continents. Each megasequence contains a huge stack of rock, often with coarse-grained sandstone on the bottom, then finer-grained deposits like shale, then topped by limestone. Each megasequence is bounded above and below by flat eroded surfaces called unconformities.
_FLOOD DEPOSITS. A few places on Earth have layers that represent all six megasequences. How did they get there? What do they say about Noah's Flood? Catastrophically water-deposited sedimentary layers top most of the world's continents. Would Noah's Flood bring lots of water and lots of mud? Geologists agree on the six megasequences, but they differ on the time scale in which they happened. If they took millions of years, then they have little to do with the Flood. But if they were all deposited rapidly and recently, then the Flood should come to mind.
_PANGAEA BREAKUP. Many also question when a larger landmass, such as a Pangaea-like supercontinent, broke into continents that moved to their current configuration. For the first time ever, new megasequence maps allow us to see how the Flood shaped our entire planet, just like the Bible said, including reconfiguring the continents.
_EDEN. According to Genesis, the Garden of Eden was a lush paradise, one that was set up for eternal life, worldwide vegetarianism and harmony with our Creator. ...
_BIBLE RECORD. Then came the fall. ... God instructed Noah to make an ark.... Then, in the 600th year of Noah's life, in the second month, the 17th day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up and the windows of heaven were opened. These two events ... began the first day of a 371 day long calamity that resurfaced the Earth and killed everything that moved on land.
_RIFTING. Hot magma mixed with steam pierced the Earth's crust. Giant rifts or tears ran thousands of miles across the planet. Scalding hot magma vaporized massive amounts of water that jetted into the atmosphere. The water fell back to Earth as intense global rain along with torrential rain from heaven for 40 days.
_TSUNAMIS. Worldwide catastrophic rifting caused massive mud-filled tsunamis to speed across deep ocean floors, then onto shallow ocean floors, killing everything in their path.
_MARINE FOSSILS. The first megasequence wipes out mostly shallow marine habitats.
_VOLCANISM. The bursting fountains of the great deep spew out megatons of magma and carbon dioxide. Sure enough the first megasequence rocks show a spike in volcanic activity and massive amounts of carbon dioxide.
_MARINE FOSSILS. During these first 40 days intense water currents over-topped most of the flooded continents. Water-laden sediment travels at hiway speeds. Thick sediment blankets start covering low regions of the continent. Fossils show that the first three megasequences buried the shallow seas that were filled with marine life, as these deposits have almost no trees or land animals. All three megasequences covered similar environments across North and South America and Africa, the three continents mapped so far. One global cause, Noah's Flood, best explains this one worldwide effect.
_ABSAROKA. Then, by the 40th day of the Flood, the Absaroka megasequence began hitting. The map showed that this is when things got much worse. Something shoves the water over the tops of even the highlands from that ancient world.
_SUBDUCTION. The newly forming ocean floor offshore is so hot that it starts very thick pushing up the ocean waters from beneath. Sea level rises dramatically. Molten magma rises and fills the widening gaps, pushing the mid-ocean ridges wider. The hot ocean floor shoves against the continents, then slides beneath it, like giant conveyor belts, deep beneath the Earth in some places. Rather than the conventional model that has the seafloors spreading slowly, this runaway subduction actually happened quickly, moving at about five miles per hour, due to the heat caused by the friction and pressure of the rapidly subducting plates.
_PULSING TSUNAMIS. As the diving ocean plates subduct under the land, they push down the continental edges and then release them, creating tsunami cycles that blanket the continents, just how tsunamis happen today, only more intense and frequent.
_MODERN EXAMPLE. For example, the most powerful earthquake ever recorded in Japan and the fourth largest in history was a magnitude 9.1 earthquake that occurred in 2011. This earthquake was caused by an undersea megathrust about 45 miles east of the Japanese coast. At the center there was a 160 foot slip between the overriding plate that was part of Japan and the underlying Pacific plate. The sea bottom rose about 23 feet when the fault unlocked and the resulting earthquake triggered a devastating tsunami that was 133 feet above sea level and traveled inland for six miles.
_TSUNAMI CYCLES. The tsunamis occurring during the Flood however were different, much different. With the ocean ridge bursting open rapidly and pushing ocean floor under land continents on a worldwide scale, tsunamis were happening in cycles, several every hour and with long stretches of subduction zones active at the same time. The incoming phase of a tsunami has a much higher speed and is highly turbulent, which keeps the sediment in suspension, but it leaves behind layers of sediment as it slows down in the retreating phase.
_FOSSILS. This cycle repeats several times every hour during the 150-day inundation stage of the Flood, first entombing the shallow marine life followed by land creatures in different habitats and elevations, leaving behind what we see today in the fossil record.
_1700 TSUNAMI. These types of tsunamis have even occurred in recent history, such as the tsunami caused by slipping ocean plates that hit the coast of Washington in 1700 and left behind multiple layers representing each wave of the tsunami.
_SUBDUCTION EVIDENCE. Recent seismic technology actually allows us to investigate whether this type of rapid subduction occurred. Sure enough, these scans reveal a ring of unexpectedly cold rock at the bottom of the mantle beneath the subduction zones that surround the Pacific Ocean.
_LAND-DWELLING FOSSILS. The severity and elevation of this stage of the Flood is why the first land creatures and plants start showing up in the fossil record laid down by the Absaroka megasequence.
_COAL. Entire ecosystems are buried in enormous deposits that later turn into coal, such as the extensive Appalachian coal beds. In fact, the U.S. has over seven trillion tons of coal reserves. Where did it all come from? While we know that coal is formed by dead plant material being sandwiched between sediment layers, we only have enough vegetation on the Earth's surface today to produce just a fraction of the existing coal reserves.
_PREFLOOD VEGETATION. This shows that the pre-Flood world was mostly covered by lush vegetation. The rising Flood waters and tsunamis that were necessary to sweep over the land and bury vast amounts of vegetation that turned into coal are best explained by a catastrophe of worldwide proportions.
_DINOSAUR PENINSULA. The fact that over a dozen states in the U.S. are filled with dinosaur fossils buried under heaps of mud also attest to the Flood. In fact, geologists have found a temporarily exposed dinosaur peninsula where the dinosaurs made their last stand, now buried there along with lake and sea life transported by the massive waves. The earlier Flood deposits, the first three megasequences, do not seem to have deposited much material over this dinosaur peninsula. Only a few hundred yards of sediment remain along the margins and in many places no deposition is left at all. Deposits thousands of feet thick occur east and west of this temporarily exposed peninsula that extends from Minnesota to New Mexico. Now buried across it are pre-Flood wetland plants and animals including dinosaurs, turtles, frogs, fish and many birds.
_DINOSAUR TRACKS. Thousands of dinosaur trackways up and down this peninsula, plus similar temporarily exposed low areas on other continents suggest that dying dinosaurs and other hardy track makers floated, waded and walked on freshly deposited mud trying to find safe ground.
_ZUNI. Next the massive Zuni megasequence hits. The Absaroka and Zuni megasequences are the most severe because the continental plates began to move more quickly from the original Pangaea-like supercontinent configuration to where they are today.
_SEDIMENTATION. With oceanic rifting and plate subduction increasing dramatically and the continents traveling apart quickly, the tsunami-like waves begin washing acrosss western North America, while virtually no sedimentation is occurring in the east.
_JURASSIC BONEYARDS. When coming up over the dinosaur peninsula, the Zuni catastrophically buries dinosaurs in the Morrison Formation, a thirteen state area encompassing over 700,000 square miles. This Jurassic unit includes at least 141 massive dinosaur boneyards where dinosaurs like Camarasaurus, Diplodocus, Apatosaurus, Stegosaurus and Allosaurus are found.
_CRETACEOUS BONEYARDS. The Cretaceous layers, like the Hill Creek Formation, are found on top of the Jurassic and hold hundreds of mass boneyards, containing several different types of dinosaurs, such as T-Rex, Triceratops, Centrosaurus and Edmontosaurus that had been living in a different ecosystem, also buried by the Zuni.
_DINOSAUR TISSUES. The Zuni was so massive and fast that it engulfed entire regions with mud flow, burying giant creatures like this T-Rex under 50 feet of muddy sediment, entombed so quickly that preserved blood cells, blood vessels and bone cells were found just recently. How much water does it take to pile 50 feet of mud on top of a dinosaur?
_NATIONAL MONUMENT. The Dinosaur National Monument in Utah contains thousands of visible bones from 11 kinds of dinosaurs that were buried in a jumbled mass in the Morrison Formation, together with crocodiles, turtles, lizards, frogs and clams. What type of event would it take to bury all these different land animals with millions of clams?
_DINOSAUR HERDS. When the dinosaur peninsula floods over completely, large herds of dinosaurs are entombed in massive fossil graveyards in the upper Cretaceous system, found in northern Wyoming, Montana and Alberta, Canada. The dinosaurs had tried to escape by fleeing northward up the peninsula as waters advanced from the south.
_MAIASAUR STAMPEDE. This explains this massive graveyard in northern Montana, that's over 1.2 miles long and contains 30 million fossil fragments representing over 10,000 adult Maiasaurs, that were simultaneously buried. In this entire collection of bones not a single baby was found. Every one of these Maiasaurs was between nine and 23 feet long. Does this seem like the adult dinosaurs were stampeding away from the raging Flood waters with 100% of their young falling behind and being engulfed in a different part of the peninsula?
_CENTROSAUR GRAVEYARD. Just 170 miles northeast of this location is one of the largest dinosaur graveyards in the world, one that even secular scientists admit was caused by a watery catastrophe. Here thousands of centrosaurs are buried in 14 megabone beds over an entire square mile, which is nearly 500 football fields. Looks like a massive herd of these creatures, thousands of them, were simultaneously buried in mud by Noah's Flood.
_MIXED GRAVEYARD. Just 45 miles west from this location is yet another massive Flood deposit and this one even has 49 different species of dinosaurs, buried along with turtles, crocodiles, fish, flying reptiles, birds and small mammals. What type of disaster could bury nearly 50 species of dinosaurs and many other types of animals, including marine life, together in mass graves?
_GRADED BONEBED. These mass burial sites are common in the U.S. as well. For example, look at this dinosaur dig site in Wyoming where a one meter thick layer of mudstone stretches for 80 acres with over a million bones in a graded, sorted bed where big bones are found at the bottom and little bones on top. The only way to develop a graded bed like this is by a catastrophic process that transports these bones and deposits them during a single event.
_FLYING CREATURES. Large flying creatures like pterosaurs were able to fly to escape the rising Flood waters, delaying their demise until the later stages of the Flood. The fossil record shows they are buried in many different layers all over the world.
_VOLCANIC ASH. There is no doubt that widespread volcanism was also involved in finishing off the dinosaurs, as many of these mass graves are literally packed with volcanic ash, ash that in many cases was mixed with water when it emplaced the dinosaurs in their tombs. One section of the Morrison Formation, called the Brushy Basin member spreads across five states and includes four thousand cubic miles of volcanic materials. Without a single volcano in the Morrison Formation, geologists believe this material had to be carried all the way from volcanoes on the west coast, volcanoes created by the magma rising from the subducting ocean crusts plunging under the land. Today these subduction zones form the ring of fire, responsible for over 90% of our earthquakes.
_BIBLE RECORD. The Bible records that on the 150th day of the Flood, God mad a wind to pass over the Earth. The waters started to recede. The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped and the rain from heaven was restrained.
_TEJAS REGRESSION. Now enters the final megasequence, the Tejas. Here, after the water peaked over the top of the highest remnant of the pre-Flood world, it began to rush off the continents, eroding and reworking some of the deposits laid down in the previous megasequences, especially carving away at the Zuni deposit. This final sequence appears to have been different than the others, because there was a reversal in flow direction as the waters began to sheet off the continents. This flow reversal transported much of the fossils deposited earlier off the highest uplands, spreading them towards the edges of the continent. The evidence points to the Tejas draining the Flood waters southward off of the U.S. towards the Gulf of Mexico with a sheet wash pattern all at once.
_GULF OF MEXICO. This is why we find massive sand deposits in the deep water of the Gulf of Mexico. Billions of barrels of oil have been discovered there with much of it found within a massive 1,100 foot thick bed of pure sand in over 7,000 feet of water over 200 miles offshore.
_MORE COAL. In addition, plants swept off the pre-Flood lands formed massive coal beds, such as in the Powder River basin of Wyoming and Montana. These Tejas layers contain the largest coal deposits in North America that currently supplies over 40% of the coal in the U.S. Some of these stacked coal beds are up to 200 feet thick and cover areas that are 60 miles long by 60 miles wide. The sheer volume of plant material required to form such a massive layer of coal testifies to catastrophic circumstances.
_HUMAN REMAINS. The massive runoff that began with the Tejas may also explain the lack of human fossils in the rock record. Any residual human remains left buried in earlier deposits were totally destroyed by the erosive retreating Flood waters. ... Any residual remains were ground up and likely spread in all directions over great distances by the Tejas, lessening the likelihood of finding any human fossil remains. Because humans were impacted earlier by the Flood's violence, they were destroyed and thus not buried whole, deep in the sediments, leaving no fossil traces. Erosion in the Tejas sequence would have affected the strata beneath, wiping away even traces of human remains buried in earlier layers. ...
_REGRESSION. On day 150 the new ocean surface began cooling and sinking, allowing the Flood waters to lower as they sheeted off the continents into the new ocean basins.
_OROGENY. Psalm 104 describes the mountains being raised at the end of the Flood and waters draining down valleys and off the emerging new land surfaces.
_HIGH ELEVATION MARINE FOSSILS. The seafloor rifting process and the resulting mountain forming process explains why sea creatures are found on mountain tops all over the world high above current sea levels.
_FLOOD END. For the remaining 220 days of the Flood the water recedes from the Earth and it dries out, allowing time for Earth to be replenished with vegetation for the animals to eat, when they eventually come off the ark.
_SEDIMENTARY ROCK. This year-long catastrophe left behind a vast number of proofs that quite frankly make its occurrence obvious. First, we have the staggering volume of fossil-bearing sedimentary rocks around the world, over one mile thick on average, billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water all over the Earth, and the sediment they're found in lies above sea level. What sort of water process could emplace so much sediment above sea level on top of the land surface?
_THIN, FLAT STRATA. Another clue is the vast horizontal extent of individual sediment layers with little to no erosional channeling between successive layers. What sort of transport and depositional process could conceivably generate such uniform layers over such vast horizontal distances? Many of these layered beds are separated by bedding planes on the scale of inches to feet, a feature so common that few stop to think about how it happened. It's as if the sediment is being deposited in pulses in a repeating manner with each pulse producing a thin layer commonly found around the world. The Flood tsunamis provide a perfect explanation.
_NO BURROWS. And it happened so quickly that there was no time between deposition of the layers for surviving critters to burrow into the layers and turn them over.
_LATE OCEAN FLOORS. What has been discovered both from a Creationist as well as from a secular understanding is that much of the continental fossil record was already in place before any of the present-day ocean crust had come into existence at a rift zone. For example, all of the trilobite fossils had been deposited, plus all of the older coal deposits had already been formed before any of the present-day ocean crust had formed. Since in Creationist understanding the presence of fossils is a completely trustworthy indicator of the action of the Flood, this means that much of the Flood cataclysm had already unfolded and it generated fossil-bearing sediments on the continental surface before any of the present-day ocean floor had appeared. It further implies that all of today's ocean floor formed since the onset of the Flood, during roughly the latter half of the cataclysm.
_SUBDUCTION. It also means that all of the pre-Flood ocean floor, plus the ocean floor formed during the earlier portion of the Flood, must have been recycled into the Earth's interior during the cataclysm. These considerations indicate in a compelling way that rapid plate tectonics must have been a major aspect of the year-long Flood catastrophe.
_ICE AGE. This six megasequence worldwide flooding process perfectly sets the stage for the subsequent ice age. The oceans had been tremendously heated by the rifting that had taken place across the 45,000 mile ridge system and the creation of a completely new seafloor of hot lava as a consequence. This caused an abnormal amount of evaporation and thus continuous rain that was likely worldwide.
_VOLCANISM. The volcanic activity created by the subduction zones that created the ring of fire would have spewed volumes of ash and aerosols high into the atmosphere, resulting in cooling, especially in the higher latitudes. These factors combined to produce an ice age that lasted a few hundred years, but ended as the conditions that caused it waned.
_ARK. The ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat in the 7th month on the 17th day of the month.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=675#p7214__SAUK VOLCANISM MYSTERY
_Section 10 [VOLCANISM] of the video transcript of the previous post said: The first megasequence (Sauk) shows a spike in volcanic activity and massive amounts of carbon dioxide. The video authors thought the Pangaea breakup began with the beginning of the Great Flood, thus starting subduction and accompanying volcanism along Pacific Ocean shores and depositing volcanic fallout in the Sauk megasequence. But they don't seem to have any good suggestions about the cause of the breakup.
_Mike Fischer's theory, though, which I favor so far, is that Pangaea didn't break up until some centuries after the Great Flood. And he has a very sensible idea of how the breakup occurred, i.e. via a huge asteroid impact. So there would have to be some other cause of the volcanism during the Great Flood. The only other cause I can think of is impacts. I think only extremely large impacts would be likely to cause volcanism. I'll try to search to see if any volcanism is associated with impacts. I already know that Mike has good evidence that the Chicxulub impact in Mexico caused volcanism which formed the Cape Verde Islands off the coast of west Africa. I think he also found or suspects that the Seychelle Islands off the east coast of Africa are also volcanic and that's where the biggest impact of all occurred.
_Impacts appear to have been occurring since before the Great Flood. I posted a fairly up-to-date list of craters at
http://funday.createaforum.com/3-12/2-47/?message=453 . I got the list of craters from Wikipedia and I got the megasequence conversions from Figure 2 at
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j29 ... _16-25.pdf . I then added the megasequences to the list of craters.
_Here's a summary of the data, showing the numbers of known small, medium and big craters in each megasequence. Small is under 10 km diameter. Moderate is 10 to nearly 50 km. Big is over 50 km diameter. More details are posted at
http://funday.createaforum.com/3-12/2-47/?message=454 .
--- POST-TEJAS (7 Craters: 6SM, ........ 1BIG==53km)
--- TEJAS (58 Craters: 39SM, 16MOD, 3BIG==52, 85, 90km)
--- ZUNI (41 Craters: 19SM, 18MOD, 4BIG==60, 65, 70, 180km)
--- ABSAROKA (27 Craters: 14SM, 11MOD, 2BIG==80, 85km)
--- KASKASKIA (14 Craters: 7SM, 3MOD, 4BIG==50, 52, 54, 110km)
--- TIPPECANOE (14 Craters: 9SM, 5MOD)
--- SAUK (18 Craters: 11SM, 6MOD, 1BIG==90km)
--- PRE-SAUK (19 Craters: 7SM, 8MOD, 4BIG==60, 70, 130, 160km)
_Before the Sauk was deposited there were 4 big impacts and 8 moderate, all of which could possibly have caused volcanism. The biggest occurred in the Pangaea regions of Africa, N.America, Australia & again N.America. The two big ones in Africa and N.America were nearly as big as Chicxulub, which latter occurred during the breakup.
__IMPACT BASINS
_Michael Oard has suggested that many basins on the continents formed from impacts. Flood basalts may also have been caused by impacts. But I don't know yet if any of the basins or flood basalts occurred before the Sauk megasequence. Most or all of the flood basalts may have formed during the Pangaea breakup, which would be after Sauk. But basins may have formed before Sauk. Oard had an article in 2013 called "Large cratonic basins likely of impact origin" at
https://creation.com/large-cratonic-basins . He said, " I will give several examples of likely impact basins from the approximately 600 examples on the continents.6 About 200 of these basins have diameters greater than 300 km.7" "The South Caspian Basin, in the southern part of the Caspian Sea, is a very deep basin filled with sedimentary rocks." "This basin has collected probably the world’s thickest sedimentary rocks, estimated at 26–28 km thick!53 Seismic profiling shows that the sedimentary layers are generally horizontal with some volcanic rocks.52" So one of the largest basins has volcanic rocks, but he later said, "But in the case of the large cratonic basins, volcanism seems unlikely because of the basin sizes and paucity of volcanic rocks." Some, if not many, of these basins likely were formed before Sauk, so they could have been sources of volcanism found in Sauk sediments, but there is apparently not strong evidence that impacts would have accounted for the volcanic material found in Sauk. I need to find out exactly what the evidence is of volcanic material in Sauk.
_Now here's more from the video transcript.
__VOLCANIC ASH ALSO KILLED DINOSAURS?
[Section 37. VOLCANIC ASH.] "There is no doubt that widespread volcanism was also involved in finishing off the dinosaurs, as many of these mass graves are literally packed with volcanic ash, ash that in many cases was mixed with water when it emplaced the dinosaurs in their tombs. One section of the Morrison Formation, called the Brushy Basin member spreads across five states and includes four thousand cubic miles of volcanic materials. Without a single volcano in the Morrison Formation, geologists believe this material had to be carried all the way from volcanoes on the west coast, volcanoes created by the magma rising from the subducting ocean crusts plunging under the land. Today these subduction zones form the ring of fire, responsible for over 90% of our earthquakes."
__PANGAEA BREAKUP DURING GREAT FLOOD?
_The dinosaurs are found mostly in the Absaroka and Zuni megasequences, i.e. the 4th and 5th. Since the Absaroka is not found in the Gulf of Mexico or in the Atlantic or Indian Ocean basins, the Pangaea breakup must have begun after the Absaroka. The Zuni and Tejas are found in those ocean basins, so the breakup must have occurred between the Absaroka and Zuni. But that makes it look like there was possibly only one Great Flood. But that would mean the Golden Age would have to be moved to before the Great Flood: 1. Dark Age, then 2. Golden Age & Advanced Civilization, then 3. Great Flood & Pangaea Breakup, then 4. Ice Age & Megalithic Civilization, then 5. Younger Dryas Impacts & Meltwater Flooding, then 6. Rebuilding Civilization. I'll try to get Mike Fischer's comments.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=675#p7260__SAUK VOLCANISM MYSTERY POSSIBLE SOLUTION
_I'm still looking for ways to determine if there was one Great Flood or two. In my previous post I discussed the SAUK VOLCANISM MYSTERY, by which I meant I don't know where the volcanism came from that deposited material in the Sauk. I said "the video transcript of the previous post said: The first megasequence (Sauk) shows a spike in volcanic activity and massive amounts of carbon dioxide. The video authors thought the Pangaea breakup began with the beginning of the Great Flood, thus starting subduction and accompanying volcanism along Pacific Ocean shores and depositing volcanic fallout in the Sauk megasequence." I showed in that post that there were likely some big impacts before the Sauk deposit, which could have caused the volcanism. The literature I quoted indicated that impacts don't seem to produce much volcanism, although I mentioned that the Chicxulub impact and the much larger Shock Dynamics impact (which broke up Pangaea) very likely did produce considerable volcanism. But those occurred after the Sauk. Now, I just remembered that Mike Fischer found that the East Pacific Rise apparently existed before the Pangaea breakup event. That Rise is a ridge, similar to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, and was likely produced in a similar way by a major impact on a former continent. He explains his idea at
https://www.newgeology.us/presentation44.html . In this image
https://www.newgeology.us/Ridge.jpg he shows the East Pacific Rise as a pinkish line which extends from Alaska to the south Pacific and curves west to the Indian Ocean. The image also shows a few lines of seamounts in the Pacific. In the next image at
https://www.newgeology.us/Megatrends.jpg he has arrows to indicate that most of Antarctica left behind the trail of seamounts when it was pushed across the Pacific to near its present location. That means the East Pacific Rise could have been producing volcanoes before the Great Flood, which the Sauk megasequence shows traces of. Mike seems to think that the Pacific Rise was formed maybe millions of years ago, but creationists have found that the granite in the continents likely formed within the last 8,000 years, although they probably haven't checked Antarctica. The seamounts in the Pacific may have produced volcanism, but the Pacific Rise likely did too. Charles Chandler found that volcanoes are likely produced electrically, via telluric currents, which he explains at
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=10527 .
__[CREATIONISTS SAY ONE GREAT FLOOD]
__Evidence for a Late Cainozoic Flood/post-Flood Boundary
https://dl0.creation.com/articles/p077/c07723/v10n1_cainozoic.pdf_For modeling purposes, where necessary in the following discussions, the Flood is dated at about 4,500 years ago. The basis for this is as follows:
(1) It is reasonable, if not appropriate, to take the genealogies of Genesis 5–11 as accurate and complete;
(2) The genealogies of Genesis place 1,656 years between Creation and the Flood; and
(3) a straightforward reading of genealogies in Scripture indicates the Creation of the world occurred around 6,000 years ago. This places the Flood at about 4,344 years ago; rounding to 4,500 years for simplicity.
_A few creationists have suggested that the Flood occurred from 7,000 to over 12,000 years ago. This places the date of Creation even further back in time. I do not accept these suggestions because they (1) significantly harm the biblical chronology by introducing thousands of years into the genealogies of Genesis, (2) are based on questionable dating methods or presumed geophysical process rates, and/or (3) rely on the less accurate Septuagint.
__[BIBLE IDEAS]
__[COMMENT: I don't consider the preflood patriarchs to have high probability so far. I'm not a creationist, but I think the older Septuagint Old Testament is likely more accurate than the Masoretic Old Testament. I've previously stated that the Septuagint may date the Great Flood more accurately, while the Masoretic may date a different Flood, that of the Pangaea breakup event. In a recent post I quoted evidence that Noah's ark was real, an example of preflood advanced civilization, and has been preserved on a highland in Turkey. Since the evidence for the ark looks very good, it's more plausible now that the Biblical account of the Great Flood may be fairly accurate too. Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible. He probably got the account from the Egyptian records and he was probably an Egyptian. Charles Chandler found that his name was probably Ramose and he shortened it because Ra was a false god that Moses repudiated.]
__[WERE DINOSAUR EGGS LAID & HATCHED DURING THE FLOOD?]
(This is more from the above article. I ask this because it looks like the eggs were possibly laid on previous Flood sediments.)
_In view of the Scriptural account, subaerial evidence should not be accepted as conclusive evidence for post-Flood activity. Cited evidences of post-Flood subaerial activity include upright trees (assumed to be in the growth position), dinosaur nests, [supposed] desert sands, unsorted volcanic ash and tuff, etc. One published claim35 that an upright tree grew in place was not supported by excavation of tree roots. Evidence presented did not eliminate the possibility that the tree was deposited upright by water as has been observed at Mt St Helens,36 and elsewhere over a century ago.37 Dinosaur nests are usually considered evidence for continued subaerial activity. However, there is important evidence that dinosaur nests did not remain on dry land long before they were buried catastrophically. The different nests in Montana have been described as eggs buried in mud inside a mudnest, and a ‘salad’ of baby dinosaur bones jumbled in three dimensions in green mudstone.38 One nest had been made ‘in the floodplain of a stream’ and Egg Mountain is described as ‘a peninsula or island in a lake’.39 Dinosaur eggs were found standing vertically in an unstable orientation, that is, on the small or pointed end.40 This orientation is characteristic of eggs submerged in muddy or mineral laden water, not a nest that remained on dry land.41 Dinosaur nests could date from the first 150 days of the Flood while waters were still rising.42
__[COMMENT: The last sentence implies that dinosaur eggs could have been laid some months before Flood waters reached their nests, presumably on preFlood land. It may have been enough time for some of the eggs to hatch. So I figured I should try to determine about how long dinosaur eggs likely needed to incubate before hatching. So here are some excerpts.]
__Preserved dinosaur egg reveals kinship to birds
https://earthsky.org/earth/preserved-dinosaur-egg-bird-oviraptorosaurs_The few brooding oviraptorosaur fossils that have been discovered so far are all from smaller species at around 220 pounds (100 kilograms) or less, no bigger than the size of an ostrich. The species to which Baby Yingliang belonged would also have been about this size: the 6 1/2 inch (17 centimeter) egg weighed 1 pound (1/2 kilogram) in life and was from an egg cluster just over 1 1/2 feet (1/2 meter) across. Giant oviraptorosaurs, which are quite rare, were considerably larger, as were their eggs and nests. In 2017, I was part of a team that studied another embryonic skeleton, known as Baby Louie. The skeleton was found with a group of eggs belonging to a new species of giant oviraptorosaur, which we named Beibeilong. As the largest known dinosaur eggs, they were over 17.7 inches (45 centimeters) long and weighed more than 11 pounds (five kilograms) each.
__A Theropod Dinosaur Embryo and the Affinities of the Flaming Cliffs Dinosaur Eggs
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.266.5186.779__Abstract. An embryonic skeleton of a nonavian theropod dinosaur was found preserved in an egg from Upper Cretaceous rocks in the Gobi Desert of Mongolia. Cranial features identify the embryo as a member of Oviraptoridae. Two embryo-sized skulls of dromaeosaurids, similar to that of Velociraptor, were also recovered in the nest. The eggshell microstructure is similar to that of ratite birds and is of a type common in the Djadokhta Formation at the Flaming Cliffs (Bayn Dzak). Discovery of a nest of such eggs at the Flaming Cliffs in 1923, beneath the Oviraptor philoceratops holotype, suggests that this dinosaur may have been a brooding adult.
[MORE COMMENT: I find online that "Hatching time varies from 36–45 days for ostrich eggs, 46–56 days for emu eggs, and 36–44 days for rhea eggs." Ostrich eggs are said to be the biggest bird egg at 6 in. or 15 cm. long. That's about the same size as the above dinosaur eggs. So dinosaur eggs probably required about the same hatching time of 50 days or so. The largest dinosaur eggs were said to be about 3 times longer, so they may have required longer incubation time, but maybe that's why those hatchlings are not found.]
__DINOSAUR PENINSULA DROWNED EARLY
_They previously described Dinosaur Peninsula as highlands stretching from Minnesota to New Mexico. In the maps at
https://ibb.co/ZcmCxPH you can see on the left that most of the megasequences covered nearly all of the Dinosaur Peninsula. The video transcript above gave the impression that the peninsula was not covered until the Absaroka. So, either the maps are wrong, or the video is wrong, or the first 4 megasequences were deposited nonviolently, so dinosaurs were able to wade, or swim, or float with debris, while the water was high, and maybe it wasn't too high for very long. It seems unlikely that many dinosaurs could survive long in deep water or that much sediment could be deposited with a gradual rise of water. The maps show that small areas of New Mexico, Wyoming, South Dakota and Minnesota were above water the longest, so maybe dinosaurs congregated in those places during high water. The white areas on the maps tend to show where sediments weren't deposited or were later washed away as the Flood receded. This map shows more clearly where all sediments were washed away. They're called shields and they're colored brown on this map:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_%28geology%29#/media/File:World_geologic_provinces.jpghttps://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=675#p7334__GREAT FLOOD MUD, SAND & FOSSILS
...
__COMMENTS. In my recent post about a TRANSCRIPT OF A NOAH'S FLOOD VIDEO at
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=7327&sid=d86701efbffb2c89bf2f3b1c22f63fcb#p7193 it said: "The Zuni [megasequence of sedimentary strata] was so massive and fast that it engulfed entire regions with mud flow, burying giant creatures like this T-Rex under 50 feet of muddy sediment, entombed so quickly that preserved blood cells, blood vessels and bone cells were found just recently. How much water does it take to pile 50 feet of mud on top of a dinosaur?"
_I guess the water would be at least twice as deep as the mud. Remember the description in that transcript of thousands of other dinosaurs and other animals in a large area of the West similarly buried under mud during the Zuni stage of the Flood? Now we see how the Flood was able to deposit thick layers of mud over them. When the Flood currents were not too fast and not too slow, the mud flocculated by electrostatic attraction and was deposited I guess somewhat like a huge mud avalanche, similar to a snow avalanche. Avalanches of snow can bury people and animals and the weight presses on them so tightly that they can't move in any direction. That's likely how the Flood mud avalanches behaved as well, immobilizing and suffocating or drowning them. Ian Taylor had a book about the Flood in 1984 called In the Minds of Men, in which he described a large school of fossilized mudsharks in Ohio that were still in swimming positions and the weight of the mud over them smashed them down to only a quarter inch thick. In my previous post I mentioned Gentry's finding that some coalified wood with radiohalos was similarly smashed, making some of the radiohalos in the wood initially elliptical instead of spherical.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=675#p7428__DID MID CONTINENT RIFT FORM BEFORE THE GREAT FLOOD?
...
__IS THE MCR PRE-FLOOD?
__REF. 2. FROM: Can ‘megasequences’ help define biblical geologic history?
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j29_2/j29_2_16-25.pdf__[MEGASEQUENCES]
_Clarey reported on the results of his analyses of transcontinental Sloss stratigraphic sequences, which he also defines as ‘megasequences’:
_“Using data from over 500 stratigraphic columns, I examined megasequences across North America to document the sedimentary evidence for the Flood’s catastrophe. At each site, the megasequence boundaries were identified, along with the thicknesses and extent of individual rock types.”51
__[MIDCONTINENT RIFT FIRST MEGASEQUENCE?]
_A new seventh megasequence was identified by Clarey at the Midcontinent Rift of North America:
_“Preliminary results demonstrate the presence of a seventh megasequence below the six common fossil-bearing megasequences. It lies just below the Sauk Megasequence in what secularists [i.e. naturalists] call the late Precambrian or Proterozoic Era. However, this newly delineated pre-Sauk sequence may be instrumental in documenting the onset of the Flood.
_“In part, the pre-Sauk megasequence was created by a tremendous outpouring of basaltic lava that split open central North America and caused the Midcontinent Rift.
_It should be noted that Reed previously published an extensive review of the Midcontinent Rift from a young earth creationist perspective and proposed rift initiation at the onset of the Genesis Flood. However, because it occurred in the interior of North America, far from any transgressing ocean, there would have been a period of tectonism/volcanism and rainfall-induced sedimentation (from local flash floods infilling basins) prior to the initial Flood marine transgression, when broader-scale marine transgression as floodwater moved into this area....
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