=MF: Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:37 PM
_dutchsinse on YouTube claims to predict earthquakes [with] controversy
_Apparently he thinks energy waves spread slowly around the planet triggering faults: youtube.com/watch?v=j4S2u1M0bTE
_Global Wrench Tectonics is just impossible.
_Submitting a discussion to NCGT journal sounds like a good idea.
=LK: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:06 pm
_I think the thicker atmosphere before the Flood is highly probable.
_I don't think the icy canopy is necessary, since megatsunamis from an orbiting asteroid etc should suffice to produce the Flood.
=MF: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 8:42 PM
_in SD, Siberia was forced far north in one day producing the sudden cold climate
_"The woolly mammoths were buried in loess (wind-blown silt), commonly found up to 60 m (200 ft) thick in the lowlands of Siberia and Alaska."
_The SD event is an ideal generator of such a storm, and it is hard to imagine any other source.
_at the 1994 conference Wycliffe Bible translator Bernard Northrup showed me his biblical time line of events, and I found SD fit his post-Flood catastrophic requirements.
_Regrettably, very few people know enough about geology to judge it fairly
<<So we should teach them.>>
=LK: 3/1/17; 2:41 PM
_The SD impact should have caused a lot of flooding, so is that how the Canyon eroded?
_Do you know how to determine whether the upper strata at the Grand Canyon were eroded during the Great Flood or during the SD event?
_Dong Choi PDF files show a map of Earth heat, mostly from the ocean ridge system, which they say is responsible for Earth's temperature.
_http://funday.createaforum.com/mike-messages/m/msg150/#msg150
_The map shows Antarctica and Greenland as rather warm too
<<I need to ask Mr. Choi about that.>>
<<figure out the likely cause of those two anticlines>>
=MF: Date: Wednesday, March 1, 2017, 8:15 PM
_Uplift and block faulting of the Colorado Plateau would occur as North America moved west during the SD event, eroding the Great Unconformity as tsunamis rushed eastward from the coast, then depositing all the sedimentary layers above it.
_A large quantity of ocean water trapped inland of the new western mountain chain eventually eroded the canyon either as runoff or as a consequence of the subsequent ice age, such as dam breaching.
_You will have to rely on Dong Choi to explain his reports.
_The anticlines map shows no apparent support for the position of the blue lines.
=LK: Date: Thu, March 02, 2017 12:14 am
_their New Madrid paper:
https://larouchepac.com/sites/default/files/GCSR1- 2015NewMadridChoi%26Casey%20(8).pdf
_It references Choi 2013, so I'll check the 2013 issues
=MF: Thu, 3/2/17
_Figure 3 in the Choi and Casey paper (New Madrid earthquakes compared to solar minimums or “solar hibernations”) is sobering if the data is accurate.
=LK: Thu 3/2/17 8:30PM
_papers from NCGT.org I posted at
http://funday.createaforum.com/mike-messages/m-82 _I also posted Tassos' paper there about 5 myths in geology.
_theories circulating in NCGT we can address their flaws while discussing your model there.
_they've apparently been making a lot of progress at predicting earthquakes.
_Choi mentions surges in his papers
_I think it refers to surges of energy that are detectable and the surges migrate along those geanticlines and it's predictable where and when they'll cause serious quakes.
_I think the geanticlines are supposed to be in the bedrock precambrian granite etc.
_Choi says heat is a major driver of geodynamics; the continents and oceans rise and fall over millions of years.
_They call subsidence of land oceanization
_They say the ocean floors have a lot of evidence of being continental sedimentary rock.
_They talk about plumes coming up from the outer core.
_They favor the theory of vertical mobility over horizontal mobility
=MF: Monday, March 6, 2017, 5:35 PM
_So Choi agrees with Plate Tectonics that heat is a major driver of geodynamics?
_Supposedly the greatest remaining concentration of heat is in the core, giving rise to alleged mantle plumes, and most of the rest is from radioactive decay in the mantle, distributed homogeneously.
_Calculations I have seen show Earth convects 44 terawatts of heat, but only half would be produced by these sources, suggesting residual heat is also being vented.
_I agree with those who attribute slow lithospheric motion to tidal forces rather than heat, due mainly to the Moon but to other bodies as well.
_Oceanic transgression and regression are essential mechanisms for producing sequence stratigraphy in Plate Tectonics and stasis theories.
_That may be easy for their supporters to accept, yet I wish they would think about what would have to happen at depth for all this repeated fluctuation of hundreds of feet to occur globally.
_And I agree with Tassos that Plate Tectonics, Heat Engine Earth, and the Organic Origin of Hydrocarbon Reserves are mistaken.
_Earthquakes are firing every second around the world, usually in well-defined zones, and the two hemispheric geanticlines don't seem to be in those zones.
=LK: Wed, March 08, 2017 1:08 am
_Surge Tectonics folks think the seafloors also are covered with sedimentary strata and granite, at least under the basalt.
_I think my best argument is that it wouldn't be possible for just one or two kinds of sediments to be deposited for thousands of years followed by one or two other kinds.
_NCGT article that seems to explain Surge Tectonics at
http://funday.createaforum.com/mike-messages/m-82/msg156/#msg156_It describes a worldwide network of surge channels and mentions some evidence for that.
=MF: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:41 PM
_Surge Tectonics rotational lag of the lithosphere relative to the mantle is correct
_the "strictosphere" (upper mantle), and consequently Earth's radius, has not been found to be shrinking (nor expanding)
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/earth20110816.html _Without shrinking, lithosphere will not be compressed for "tectogenesis".
_The lithosphere is buoyant anyway, and would not "collapse" into denser asthenosphere and mantle, even at Benioff zones
http://www.academia.edu/18543181/Continents_as_lithological_icebergs_the_importance _of_buoyant_lithospheric_roots
_Without shrinking, magma in channels, if they exist, will not be pumped to "surge".
_near-surface mantle (at least) is not homogeneous but contains scattered hot or wet pools.
_seismic tomographic images reveal a generous distribution of dense and less dense anomalies.
_I have not seen any that support the surge channel concept.
<<If you have any such images at hand, I would like to see them.>>
=LK: Thu, March 16, 2017 2:23 pm
_Dong Choi said the best evidence for Surge Tectonics is Art Meyerhoff's book
_NCGT article around 2004 favors electrical battery model for Earth and Dr. Choi favors that model too; he said it helps explain the major earthquake correlation with sunspot minima.
_Our discussion with NCGT may need to argue against
- cold formation of Earth,
- transgressing/regressing oceans,
- major vertical uplift/subsidence and
- radiometric dating
_Since they seem to be able to predict earthquakes based on detection of some kind of surges that supposedly migrate north or south along the major geanticlines etc, there must be something to the surges, but I'll have to wait till I get the book soon to see if it explains evidence for surges etc meaningfully.
_I did some more reading on the Kola Borehole yesterday and found some interesting statements.
_I posted much of it at
http://funday.createaforum.com/1-10/k/_The pressure was found to be 92% to 29% of the expected value for most of the first 8800 m, with the exception of the ca. 3200 m mark, where it was over twice the expected amount.
_Fracturing of the rock was said to be the cause of the low pressures.
_Below 8800 m I guess the pressure was as expected.
_But the temperature at 12000 m was 180 C, instead of 100 as expected.
_The main scientist for the project seems to say that the rock below 7000 m was sedimentary rock from weathered granite that metamorphosed back to granite.
_Plankton fossils were found about 6400 m deep.
=MF: 3/16, 2017 7:28 PM
_metamorphosed granite is "granite gneiss", and metamorphosed sedimentary rock is just gneiss.
_this analysis from Stanford concerns the Sun's diameter (conclusion at bottom of page)
http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qshrink.html_electrical activity regarding Earth [is] all new to me.
=LK: 3/22, 2017 1:36 pm
_Surge Tectonics book copied at
http://funday.createaforum.com/mike-messages/s/msg178/#msg178_they have pretty good evidence for the surge channels, at least from the Moho level.
_I don't know if there's evidence of channels below that.
_Charles has figured out that vertical channels from the Moho likely produce volcanism and earthquakes, but lava doesn't come from the Moho. It comes from the crust around the channel.
_The Moho is ionized and provides a path for ionization through the vertical channels.
_The tides keep the electrical circuits charged, first in one direction (up), then in the other (down), each day.
_If the [surge] channels are real, it would be nice if you or we can determine if SD can explain them.
_They talk about Pascal's Law, which seems likely to be important for SD, although I don't know how well that law would apply to ionized matter within a planet.
_I haven't noticed any mention of the Earth having formed from cold matter.
=LK: 3/23, 2017 10:54 am
_Meyerhoff claimed that the shrinkage of the Earth is very gradual and episodic.
_I read [not in the book] that the Earth loses maybe twice as much mass every year via hydrogen as it gains via meteors.
_The shrinkage and cooling is plausible, but probably not by gravity causing surge channels.
_Instead, Charles' model has tidal forces constantly moving electric double layers in the Earth up and down about 1 meter every day, so electric forces seem to be the cause of surge channels, but probably not below the Moho.
_Tidal forces are electrical too, as Charles explains.
_And Dong Choi agrees with electrical forces in the Earth.
_Meyerhoff's book doesn't seem to mention electrical forces, so Choi seems to accept an Italian geologist's ideas about that, although NCGT papers and discussions don't seem to discuss electrical forces, other than the Italian geologist's paper from about 2004.
_I think the surge channels are explained by Charles' electrical model [& SD].
_The book seems to express doubt that catastrophism has had much influence on geological events or features, but I think we have plenty of evidence that it has had major influence.
_Charles and Gordon both accept the Shock Dynamics model in large part; they just don't think the continents would have moved apart at the speeds that you have determined.
_Gordon thinks it took months. Charles probably thinks at least months and maybe years.
_I on the other hand think it's obvious they had to move very quickly as you suggest.
_If they didn't move quickly enough, fluidization would have been overcome too soon by friction
=MF: 3/24, 2017, 9:42 PM
_The fluid, swirling interaction of the crustal pressure wave with moving landmasses during the Shock Dynamics event is clearest in Oceania (attached image), explained at
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation13.html_Are Earth's electrical forces considered by Charles to be due to the piezoelectric effect?
=LK: 3/25/17 5:33PM
_No. The piezoelectric effect is [too] minor
_if piezoelectricity is involved in fluidization, that seems to be the only time it would be very significant ... impacts too.
_Here are the main topics in his Astrophysics & Geophysics papers at
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=5660-6031_continental roots the Surge Tectonics book says prove continents have not moved.
_maybe the roots formed as the continents began to encounter significant friction toward the ends of the sliding.
_then Africa shouldn't have roots and Eurasia should have very little, unless the entire supercontinent had slid previously.
_[Maybe] melting often separates heavier material from lighter, so that could account for the roots.
_Do you have a better explanation for the NCGT discussion.