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« on: March 17, 2019, 08:48:08 pm »

Where is the Flood/post-Flood Boundary? (Mesozoic host sediments are post-Flood)

The fossil record - Becoming more random all the time
The reality of the geologic column is predicated on the belief that fossils have restricted ranges in rock strata. In actuality, as more and more fossils are found, the ranges of fossils keep increasing. I provide a few recent examples of this, and then show that stratigraphic-range extension is not the exception but the rule. The constant extension of ranges simultaneously reduces the credibility of the geologic column and organic evolution, and makes it easier for the Genesis Flood to explain an increasingly-random fossil record.

Reliable data disconfirm a late Cenozoic post-Flood boundary
post-Flood boundary lies deeper, likely at or near the K-Pg boundary

« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 03:30:44 pm by Admin »

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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2019, 03:28:13 pm »
What do impacts accomplish in the first hour?
Larger impact craters on Earth, although almost destroyed, might however have thinned the crust and raised the Moho. The amount of crustal thinning and the height of the Moho above the average are the main factors that determine the type and size of the gravity anomaly. …  The final crater shape is usually set within about 400 to 800 seconds.21
Planetary-scale properties can be changed. …  Moreover, the rebound is now thought to overshoot the original ground surface and reach many kilometres higher (figure 7).26 During the rebound, the rock acts like a fluid, but it is unknown how this happens, although there are a number of mechanisms attempting to explain this phenomenon.30 Based on the standard ratio of impact depth to diameter, the large and very large impacts on the moon should have blasted well down into the moon’s mantle. However, mantle rocks exposed from impacts on the moon’s surface are extremely rare.31 The conundrum of the missing mantle rocks implies that the transient crater depth was much shallower than expected. Basins on Mars between 275 and 1,000 km in diameter are also shallower with less crustal thinning than expected.32 The puzzle is especially evident in an analysis of possibly the largest impact basin in the solar system, the South PoleAitken Basin on the moon. The diameter is 2,500 km, but there are no mantle rocks. None of the mantle was tapped during such a huge impact,33 and very little basalt flowed into this crater.
_Impacts in water. Impacts in water of course are different from those that strike land. If the impact is small compared to the depth of water, there will be little cratering on the bottom.41 For asteroids with diameters about the depth of the water or greater, the water will have little or no effect on the cratering process. The rebound of the centre of the crater immediately after impact would mostly be a pulse of water shooting high into the air.
_The most significant effect of impacts striking water is that a fair amount of water will be blasted up into the air42 and large tsunamis will result. In the excavation of an oceanic crater, a thin layer of water is ejected from the rim almost straight up, which soon collapses and plunges onto the water surface (figure 8 ). So impacts cause water to shoot high into the atmosphere at both the rim and the centre of the impact. Could this be what is described in the Bible as “on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open” (Genesis 7:11b)?  Much water is also vaporized during transport to the upper atmosphere: “Another important difference between continental and oceanic impacts is the vaporization of water expanding as a vapor cloud in the upper atmosphere. Earth’s climate and atmospheric circulation may be severely perturbed by the injection of a large amount of vapor … .”43 The above statement was made assuming one impact. However, with multiple impacts occurring simultaneously during the very early Flood, a huge amount of water vapor, and probably also liquid water, would be injected into the atmosphere and above.44 The liquid and vapor would be spread all around the earth by the upper winds and general circulation of the earth, whatever that was before the Flood, and fall as torrential worldwide rain early in the Flood. Such a rainfall would tend to slow up as the number of impacts decreased early in the Flood. But, it would still take many days before all the water fell out of the atmosphere by gravity. Such an impact mechanism can easily explain the 40 days and night[ s] of heavy rain over the earth.
_Impacts in water cause tsunamis. The size of the tsunami wave is related to the projectile diameter, but it will be different than a tsunami resulting from a large earthquake. Tsunamis would move at hundreds of m/sec away from the impact, and as they move through deep water they are large swells that may not even be detected on board a ship. It is only in shallow water that a tsunami builds up to a giant wave. Impacts cause two groups of tsunamis: one from the pushing outward of water at the rim and the other from the collapse of the central uplift, which will follow the rim wave (figure 8 ). Impact tsunamis decay much faster than earthquake-­induced waves. There are two reasons for this weaker tsunami for the same amount of energy. First, a resurge flow returning water back into the crater would diminish the strength of the tsunami waves and also help fill up the crater with debris.45 Second, since impact tsunamis are much larger, the breaking of the wave in shallow water starts on the edge of the continental shelf and not near the beach.46 Breaking so far from shore dissipates much of its energy, and the roll up on land would be much less than expected.
non­random distribution of large impacts on the moon ... would suggest that the largest impacts hit the near side before the moon barely rotated one quarter of its axis. ... the straightforward interpretation of the observations indicates that the very large impacts struck the moon quickly before it could rotate much.48 [One 4th of 29 days = 7+ days.]
... if over 36,000 impacts occurred during the one­year Flood and mostly at the beginning, the bombardment would be much more complicated. There would be additional geophysical and geological effects, such as some areas of Earth becoming saturated from multiple, simultaneous impacts; interference from tsunami waves and atmospheric winds from different asteroids; large areas of the earth losing variable amounts of its crust; massive volcanism; etc. The concept of so many impacts striking quickly is a major challenge to understand within a Flood model. Nevertheless I am compelled to try, and any mistakes I make can be corrected by other creationists. The idea of more than 36,000 craters greater than 30 km in diameter, all occurring within one year, is a shocking idea to many creationists. But I believe the deduction is sound, based on what we observe on other solid solar system bodies, especially on the moon. I might add that over the years a number of creationists have proposed that impacts initiated the Flood or at least triggered catastrophic plate tectonics (CPT), which caused the Flood. Carl Froede Jr has conveniently referenced those creationist papers.67 There certainly was enough energy to cause a Flood, produce the sediments, create basins, cause vertical tectonics, etc. Tens of thousands of impacts would help level high pre­Flood terrain by blasting mountains to pieces, but other mountains would form as a result of the central uplift and the uplifted rim. The debris would tend to fill up low terrain, contributing to the leveling of the earth. For a planet with so much water, such a leveling would have the net effect of flooding the entire earth. This could be the reason why the floodwater covered all the land by Day 150.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 03:29:47 pm by Admin »


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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2019, 04:09:43 pm »
Large cratonic basins likely of impact origin
… Phase change problem. The mechanism of phase change seems to be the only viable uniformitarian mechanism for basin subsidence. For instance, if basalt or gabbro subside, the lithostatic pressure increases and the rock can change to eclogite, which is 15% denser with 15% less volume. The required pressure is that of the lower crust and upper mantle. So if basalt and gabbro can subside to about 40–60 km depth, this phase transformation can potentially occur and the basin will subside more. This is a reasonable idea, except where does the initial subsidence come from? Furthermore, the phase transformation from gabbro to eclogite requires water,18 and there is rarely any significant water at the depth of the lower crust and upper mantle.
_Properties of basins. … Thick sedimentary rocks
Basins are almost always filled with sedimentary rocks, which are sometimes extremely thick. Some depths will be given in the examples of basins below, but other basins not mentioned are the East Barents Basin in the Barents Sea, north of Norway, that has about 20 km of sedimentary rocks; the West Siberian Basin with about 8 km of sedimentary rocks; the Tarim Basin of central Asia with 15 km of sedimentary rocks; and the Paranà Basin in South America with about 7 km of sedimentary rocks.21
_Little deformation during sedimentation. An examination of those rocks reveals that the sediments underwent little deformation when deposited in the basin.13,22 Figure 1 shows sedimentary rocks of the Precambrian Belt Supergroup, which are typically undeformed within the bedding planes and formations, but the whole supergroup is deformed as a single unit, suggesting that deformation occurred after the whole supergroup was deposited.
_The crust is commonly thinned in basins. It has been discovered by seismic and gravity anomaly methods that the crust below a basin is commonly thinned. Artyushkov states: “Considerable thinning of the crystalline crust occurs under most deep basins located on continents.”15 Along with a thinned crust, the Moho, the boundary between the crust and mantle, is commonly raised (see figure 2).
_Some basins uplifted and deformed. Another significant observation on basins applies to sedimentary basins in which the sedimentary rocks are uplifted and folded by compression and differential vertical tectonics.22 Practically all uplift occurs after the sediments have been deposited and turned to sedimentary rock. During uplift, the sedimentary rocks are folded and faulted with the top eroded. Such uplifted sedimentary rocks form many of the mountain ranges of the world today and would not impress anyone that they were once in a deep basin.
_In the case of an impact origin, no subsidence is needed to form the basin; an instant circular ‘hole’ in the ground is blasted out. Subsidence or uplift may occur after the basin is filled with sediments.
_... the Flood impact submodel postulates thousands of impacts occurred early in the Flood. One major effect of such a large amount of impacts is to blast a huge amount of debris up into the air in the form of ejecta. All this sediment would end up in the floodwater and would eventually be deposited. A second major effect of so many impacts is that powerful currents would develop, sometimes interfering with each other. So, the combination of powerful currents and a huge amount of sediment would be rapid sedimentation in deep basins where currents are expected to be weaker and allow sedimentation. So, early Flood impact craters are expected to rapidly fill with sediments, since the crater acts like a sediment trap (see figure 8a). Sedimentation was likely so rapid that the sediments were little deformed by subsequent movements of the crater bottom and walls.
_Large basins of North America
There are five large basins on the stable craton of North America that I will briefly discuss. These basins are the Belt, Williston, Illinois, Michigan, and Hudson Bay Basins.
_Two basins of note on other continents. … The South Caspian Basin. … The Congo Basin.
_The two largest recognized Precambrian impact features, the Vredefort and Sudbury impact structures, have been eroded anywhere from 5 to 10 km.70 In a Flood setting, with thousands of impacts in a short time, turbulent currents would be expected to create significant erosion that also would destroy shatter cones, PDFs, and other impact features.
_Discussion. ... There are hundreds of cratonic basins that could be discussed, some of which have been discussed elsewhere.74 ... Tectonics, erosion, and sedimentation during the Genesis Flood are expected to destroy much of the evidence for impact craters. But, cratonic basins would be one of the most obvious evidences of large, modified impact craters.


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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2019, 07:43:56 pm »

Can Flood Geology Explain the Fossil Record?
1. Precambrian: Pre-Flood
2. Cambrian: Heavy rain ...; Erosion, deposition of ocean sediments; formation of Precam/Cam. unconformity
3. Ordovician: Rising water; coarse to fine grading of sediments
4. Silurian: High water; deposition of thick shale & limestone
5. Devonian: Tidal & wave action; cyclothems; rhythmic deposition
6. MS-PA: Water covers all land; formation of coal; lowland forest burial
7. Permian: Rain stops, wind blows; cross-bedded sandstones
8. Triassic: Mountains rise; moving continents
9. Jurassic: Waters start to recede; Mountain-building
10. Cretaceous: Major erosion of new mountains; guyots
11. Paleocene: Fossilization of reptiles; coal formation; upland forest burial
12. Eocene-Oligocene: Water continues to recede; fossilization of mammals; continental margin sediment; less dense strata
13. Miocene: Major volcanism
14. Pliocene: Localized sediments & valley fills
15. Pleistocene: Post-Flood erosion; glaciation
16. Recent:
_... the Palaeozoic cannot represent submarine deposition and the Permo-Mesozoic the transgression of pre-Flood seas over the land because the Palaeozoic itself represents that transgression — the marine deposits of that era lie over continental deposits, not Precambrian ocean floors.
_ The Lower Cambrian quartzite above the unconformity also shows evidence of rapid deposition.60 In Scotland there are two unconformities below the Cambrian. The earlier separates the Lewisian gneiss from the overlying Stoer and Torridon Groups; the later unconformity comes between these and the Cambrian quartzite. In Arizona, similarly, there is an unconformity between the Vishnu Schist and the overlying Unkar and Chuar Groups (consisting of limestone, shale, sandstone and conglomerate) and a second between these and the Tapeats Sandstone ('The Great Unconformity').61 The two regions bear close comparison. The Torridonian Sandstone testifies, in its 'fluid evulsion structures', to sediment dumping on a massive scale, just as do similar features in the Unkar Group. These deposits above the metamorphosed rocks of the Precambrian — regularly thousands of metres thick — constitute the rocks which were eroded when the fountains of the deep broke open. The horizontal surface of trans-gression at the later unconformity marks the violent incoming of the sea some weeks later. Ager remarks that an unfossiliferous quartzite lying conformably below fossiliferous Lower Cambrian and unconformably above a great variety of Precambrian rocks — exactly the situation in Scotland — occurs 'very commonly around the world'. Indeed, 'It is not only the quartzite, but the whole deepening succession that tends to turn up almost everywhere, i.e. a basal conglomerate, followed by the orthoquartzite, followed by glauconitic sandstones, followed by marine shales and thin limestones. '62 The lateral persistence of this succession is striking enough. What is yet more striking is that it represents an overall grading of particle sizes, from very coarse at the bottom to very fine at the top. This is the sort of 'upward-fining' pattern which one often finds in a series of beds, such as a cyclothem. In other words, the whole succession has the unity characteristic of a single episode of erosion and deposition, during which material is eroded by fast-moving currents, held in suspension, and then water-sorted as current velocity wanes — as a result, for example, of the water becoming deeper. Commonly a coarse lithology prevails at the bottom of the Cambrian succession (conglomerates and sandstones), a fine lithology at the top (limestone and dolomite), while shales, silts and mudstones occur in-between.63  Widespread carbonate deposition continues until the end of the Lower Ordovician, after which a surface of erosion marks an unconformity over much of North America.64 Marking the end of one continuous sequence, this would seem to represent, so far as North America is concerned, the virtual completion of transgression over the continent, followed by a steep increase in bioturbation as current strength and sedimentation rates decreased.65 
_Except over the Transcontinental Arch, Cambrian rocks are found throughout the North American interior. Those regions where they are absent were either source areas for deposition elsewhere or eroded subsequently; there is no evidence of any pristine topography. By the Upper Ordovician the process was complete: the sea had spread eastwards and westwards across most, probably all,74 of the continent — after the entire Precambrian land surface had been broken up, inundated and redeposited. If we adopt Austin's own estimate of the speed of transgression, upwards of two metres per second, 500 miles would have been covered in 4-5 days. If we halve this rate in order to take account of higher elevations inland, the whole continent could have been transgressed within four weeks. Cambrian rocks, often with an unconformity at their base, are of worldwide occurrence, making it possible that by the Upper Ordovician every part of the earth was deluged. 
_ ...  there is no trace of a vegetated terrestrial surface at that time anywhere. The spores and woody plant material recovered from Cambrian strata76"79 occur in sedimentary deposits and are not therefore in their original locations. ...  it seems clear that the Upper Precambrian to Lower Ordovician transgression must be placed within the first 150 days of the Genesis record. Accordingly, all Cambrian deposits must be Flood deposits, and wherever they are found, the land must be already under water. At that point the possibility of pristine land surfaces comes to an end, until a new surface emerges out of the Flood. ... In reality, although extensive regions may once have been underwater shelves, in general the continents of today are undoubtedly fragments of the supercontinent before the Flood. It follows, therefore, that the Lower Palaeozoic marine animals fossilised in, say, Iowa, hundreds of miles inland from the pre-Flood shore, must have been transported enormous distances (Figure 5). Because the whole Earth was under water well before the end of the Lower Palaeozoic, it is impossible to explain assemblages after the Lower Palaeozoic — including terrestrial assemblages — as originating from nearby provinces which had not yet been inundated.
_Did Animals Escape to Higher Ground? ... The Cambrian, Ordovician, Silurian and Devonian deposits exposed on the Earth today are marine and igneous deposits overlying a Precambrian basement, and that basement is the scoured remains of the primeval supercontinent. Strata at the pre-Flood boundary do not represent the surfaces of pre-Flood sea bottoms, while none of today's ocean floors are older than Mesozoic. The Atlantic Ocean, for instance, originated in the Jurassic, when 'Pangaea' rifted apart and new seafloor spread out from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.94 ... Terrestrial animals are totally absent from strata of the Lower Palaeozoic because they were obliterated: 'In seven days I will send rain upon the earth . . . and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.' (Genesis 7:4)
_Again, it is important to keep in mind the violence of events during the first six weeks of the Flood. In still waters the corpses of most terrestrial animals will float on the surface, and a few will sink to the bottom. In turbulent waters bodies which are heavier than water take longer to sink, and in the meantime are subject to processes which rapidly reduce them to nothing: physical dismemberment through continual buffeting, consumption by scavengers and predators (sharks, marine reptiles, carnivorous fish), abrasion and pulverisation in churning sediments, chemical and bacterial decomposition. In the conditions of the first 40 days — beginning with the stripping of the original land surface to depths of thousands of metres — it is difficult to imagine that any remains of land animals could have survived in recognizable form. With its widespread volcanism and metamorphism, the Upper Precambrian record suggests that land animals were annihilated almost instantly, by processes other than drowning and decay.
_ The advantage of the fishes, which also would have been borne along by the currents, was that they could swim away once the currents slackened and their sediment loads began to settle. It is this circumstance which explains why they scarcely ever appear in Cambrian strata. Fish that were already dead when the currents slackened would tend to have been buried higher up than the invertebrates because of their greater buoyancy. The mass burials of fish which, in the Palaeozoic, occur in Devonian strata were mostly the result of shoals being overwhelmed by epicontinental landslides while they were still alive. Since the conditions most favourable for such burials were shallow waters near emerging land, they are evidence that by the early Devonian the Flood was already waning.98
_...  temporary surfaces were being colonised during the Flood itself, sometimes by creatures that had come into existence during the Flood. It is unlikely to be the case that a broken brachiopod in some Silurian deposit was spawned on a preFlood seafloor and then transported hundreds of miles to its burial place; it might have been spawned on an Ordovician surface which was several months later eroded away, by the same powerful currents that broke its shell.
_There were in fact earlier orogenies, notably the stupendous Caledonian and Variscan orogenies of the Palaeozoic, and these were followed by a period of relative stability during the Triassic, Jurassic and much of the Cretaceous. In the Mesozoic there is no juncture where the whole Earth could be said to have been thenceforth under water. That juncture is to be found only in the Ordovician, whereas as we shall consider presently, dry-land structures occur all through the Mesozoic: subaerially deposited basalts, aeolian red beds, root beds, bird and animal tracks, dinosaur nests and so on. Nor is there a juncture still higher in the Mesozoic where it is possible to claim that the first surfaces began to emerge from the water. That juncture is to be found much earlier at the end of the Silurian.
_The Coal Measures Coal does not occur in the geological column until the Upper Devonian. On northern continents it is most abundant in the Upper Carboniferous, on southern continents (the original Gondwana) it abounds in the Permian, and in both cases the deposits are nearly all located on the then continental margins. A second concentration of coal deposits begins in the Cretaceous and climaxes in the Tertiary (see Figure 3). Since this pattern of distribution is worldwide and can hardly be fortuitous, it requires an explanation.
_The answer, so far as the Permo-Carboniferous is concerned, must be that the measures represent forests of aquatic vegetation — thick platforms of interlocking roots and entangled debris, covering thousands of squares of miles —which were grounded as the waters continued to drain off the land after the Flood year. Successive currents washed the vegetation (including flotsam) into deepening offshore basins, while prograding sediments from the land spread out under the water and thereby anchored the forests.120 ... Soon after a raft of vegetation became anchored in shallow-water sediments, the progressive sinking of the sediments pulled the vegetation below water level in advance of the next prograding cycle. Such processes clearly require time. Within the 800 m thick succession of Pennsylvanian deposits in the Eastern Interior Basin of Illinois and Indiana no less than 51 separate delta advances have been distinguished.121 Together with other evidences of time in the Upper Carboniferous, the cyclothems cannot be satisfactorily explained as the deposits of a few months.
_It is noteworthy that in many places Devonian strata constitute the uppermost rocks of the Appalachian Plateau.125 Elsewhere the record ends with the Lower or Upper Carboniferous, for example in Virginia, Indiana and Tennessee. Far from showing increasing inundation, the Devonian was the time when the Appalachian Mountains began to be uplifted — a process which continued into the Triassic. Drainage off the emergent slopes resulted in the formation of coarse-grained meander-belts below, above and at the same level as the coalfields immediately west of the Appalachians, until the conditions for sedimentary deposition in the area ceased.126 Similar drainage channels have been reported from the British coalfields.127
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